Descent is up for grabs?

Aggressor Prime · Post by **Aggressor Prime** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:45 pm

I found this link via Wikipedia. According to Wikipedia, this means that a Descent 4 is possible now.

\"The trademark for Descent was allowed to lapse by Interplay in 2002, giving possibilities for the creation of games based on Descent, or perhaps even a sequel to Descent³. As of 2007, the only viable possibility for a game close enough to be considered a sequel to Descent³ is Core Decision.\"

I wonder if anyone will dare make a Descent 4 anytime soon. Yeah, Core Decision should be great, but it would be nice to get back to the Descent storyline. And with today's DX10 graphics, a Descent 4 would look sweet.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:03 pm

interplay still owns the copyright on everything that would make a possible descent 4 a descent sequel.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:15 pm

Yes, because Wikipedia is a reliable source for conducting research...

Aggressor Prime · Post by **Aggressor Prime** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:36 pm

What else would be needed?

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:57 pm

fliptw wrote:interplay still owns the copyright on everything that would make a possible descent 4 a descent sequel.

Interplay doesn't own the copyright, Parallax Software does.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:09 pm

Since that page isn't in Wiki itself, I'm inclide to believe it. If this is true, how do we go about gobbling it up before another company does.

*JBOMB* · Post by ***JBOMB*** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:13 pm

As of 2007, the only viable possibility for a game close enough to be considered a sequel to Descent³ is Core Decision.\"

yeah gee i wonder where that info came from or who it was written by... This info looks very legit...hurry up and grab up the rights to descent 4 everyone! LOL...

btw...welcome to 4 years ago

cheers

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:14 pm

DCrazy wrote:
fliptw wrote:interplay still owns the copyright on everything that would make a possible descent 4 a descent sequel.
Interplay doesn't own the copyright, Parallax Software does.

Correct. Interplay owns certain aspects and Parallax owns others.

Someone needs to find the post by Valin about what it took to try to get approval by both parties to give the OK to a community build of Descent 4. Find it and put a sticky on it so we don't have to go through this EVERY 6 MONTHS!

Aus-RED-5 · Post by **Aus-RED-5** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:24 pm

Duper wrote:
DCrazy wrote:
fliptw wrote:interplay still owns the copyright on everything that would make a possible descent 4 a descent sequel.
Interplay doesn't own the copyright, Parallax Software does.
Correct. Interplay owns certain aspects and Parallax owns others.

Someone needs to find the post by Valin about what it took to try to get approval by both parties to give the OK to a community build of Descent 4. Find it and put a sticky on it so we don't have to go through this EVERY 6 MONTHS!

x2

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:59 pm

The thing is we never got the OK. Parallax was unresponsive. Our contact at Interplay (IP lawyer, I believe) seemed pretty enthusiastic about a community D4, since the Volition and Outrage acquisitions all but sealed Descent's fate. They saw it as an opportunity to reinvigorate interest in a dying franchise of a dying company for little to no output. The problem is that Parallax still held the option on D4, and since Matt Toschlog and Mike Kulas were its only employees (and Parallax had joined in the Bethesda lawsuit) there was absolutely no way Interplay could get them to give up the option.

So we were sunk. Interplay couldn't give us the final go-ahead even though they owned the trademark, because they'd licensed their rights to Parallax, a company suing them whose sole employees were the presidents of two developers purchased by a rival publisher.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:47 pm

DCrazy wrote:The thing is we never got the OK. Parallax was unresponsive. Our contact at Interplay (IP lawyer, I believe) seemed pretty enthusiastic about a community D4, since the Volition and Outrage acquisitions all but sealed Descent's fate. They saw it as an opportunity to reinvigorate interest in a dying franchise of a dying company for little to no output. The problem is that Parallax still held the option on D4, and since Matt Toschlog and Mike Kulas were its only employees (and Parallax had joined in the Bethesda lawsuit) there was absolutely no way Interplay could get them to give up the option.

So we were sunk. Interplay couldn't give us the final go-ahead even though they owned the trademark, because they'd licensed their rights to Parallax, a company suing them whose sole employees were the presidents of two developers purchased by a rival publisher.

Well, this could be the storyline for a fps game

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:26 am

Or a low budget movie.

zico · Post by **zico** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:23 am

They should make the Descent and Descent ][ data files Freeware. That would be a first step.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:23 am

There's a lot of stuff on the Descent Wikipedia articles that seems to be written by speculators and wishful thinkers. Don't take it too seriously (although there are some parts that are solid now).

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:01 am

MD-2389 wrote:Or a low budget movie.

You know, there had been a Descent movie in the works a long time ago.. about the same time Judge Dred was being scripted. I found a link to an article in an old text file I had laying around, but the link is dead now of course. :I have to agree Zico. D1 and D2 should be freeware by now. 10 years is a long time to be "money grubbin". lol.. 99 cents for 15 megs worth of code? (D1)

Paying THIS price Is just a bit silly for a game this old. Especially when you can occasionally find it in the bargain bins for a buck like I said.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:40 am

Duper wrote:You know, there had been a Descent movie in the works a long time ago.. about the same time Judge Dred was being scripted. I found a link to an article in an old text file I had laying around, but the link is dead now of course. :
I have to agree Zico. D1 and D2 should be freeware by now. 10 years is a long time to be "money grubbin". lol.. 99 cents for 15 megs worth of code? (D1)

Paying THIS price Is just a bit silly for a game this old. Especially when you can occasionally find it in the bargain bins for a buck like I said.

Actually, I was making a joke, referring to dissent's post. As for D1 and D2 being freeware....I know for a fact D1 is. It was released for free in PC Gamer years ago. D2, while hasn't officially been released for free, is up on "Home of the Underdogs"....along with dozens of older Interplay titles. Before anyone screams "thats warez!", keep in mind that HotU only puts up material they consider "abandonware". Freespace2 has been up on that site for a good two years now. However, given this is a legal grey area, you'll have to look it up for yourself. I'm not posting a link. (here or in PM so don't bother if your google-fu isn't strong enough.)

Zantor · Post by **Zantor** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:23 pm

Outrage Entertainment (part of former Parallax, but not Parallax itself) owns the copyrights to the source code and artwork. Sine Outrage has went out of business, who knows who owns the actual copyrights or if they're just up in the air.

Interplay Entertainment owns the publishing (and I think developing too) rights to Descent. Permission must be acquired to prevent copyright infringement, and the rights must be bought from Interplay. It's possible (I don't know for sure) that the copyrights could also be bought or the code could be opensourced.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:36 pm

DCrazy wrote:So we were sunk. Interplay couldn't give us the final go-ahead even though they owned the trademark, because they'd licensed their rights to Parallax, a company suing them whose sole employees were the presidents of two developers purchased by a rival publisher.

Oh please. You weren't "sunk." If y'all really cared about the gameplay of Descent, you'd go off and make a related game like Core Decision or Forsaken. A great game is more than just a name, period. There are plenty of independent developers that act out of love for their respective genres. The selfish "They stopped us!" tirade is old.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:23 pm

Sunk from a legal perspective. We kept working on it anyway independently of Interplay, until the project fell apart.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:28 pm

Zangarath wrote:Outrage Entertainment (part of former Parallax, but not Parallax itself) owns the copyrights to the source code and artwork. Sine Outrage has went out of business, who knows who owns the actual copyrights or if they're just up in the air.

Interplay Entertainment owns the publishing (and I think developing too) rights to Descent. Permission must be acquired to prevent copyright infringement, and the rights must be bought from Interplay. It's possible (I don't know for sure) that the copyrights could also be bought or the code could be opensourced.

Outrage is only involved in Descent 3. The agreement exists between Interplay and Parallax Software, which was inked before Parallax split.

Interplay doesn't own the development rights (see above). That's the core of the Interplay/Parallax contract. And your statements aren't even self-consistent; you can't license the copyright for something you don't own the copyright for, yet you claim that it's necessary to license the copyright from Interplay, but you also say that Outrage owns the copyright.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:08 am

To further bolster my point (Parallax still exists), visit the Illinois business site and do a search for \"Parallax Software\". They filed their 2006 reports, so they're in \"good standing\".

zbriggs · Post by **zbriggs** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:28 pm

Actually there is more to it than just a trademark. We did a great deal of research before starting on our current path. The trademark is just the ability to use the Descent logo and the name in conjunction with a game and more specifically a sci-fi shooter.

The copyright is still owned by Parallax as well the development rights. Matt Toschlog and Mike Kulas have to come together to form Parallax to make any decisions regarding the development or copyright of Descent. Copyrights last 75 years past the death of the owner. Since a corporation is a legal entity, in the eyes of the law it is a person or will be treated as one, and a corporation can live forever the likely-hood of a copyright lapse is just not there.

Furthermore, Interplay owns the publishing rights and will not give them up and will not sell them. However, they are also in no position to publish the product providing some loophole but also setting a collision course for a courtroom.

That my friends is the facts about the Descent title. I have gathered much of this from people involved in it.

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:40 pm

Hmm... and next time I win the lottery I'll sue for the source code and trademark, its foolproof!

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:39 pm

No lawsuit needed (or warranted, as you really don't have any claim against them)... if you win the lottery, just start offering them the $$!

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed May 02, 2007 3:56 am

That would be a waste of money though. Firstly, the source code is so old now that it would be of little use to you at all. Secondly, the name is just a name; it doesn't have to be called Descent something to be just as good.

The money would be better put to use funding a project with a different name but similar ideas.

zbriggs · Post by **zbriggs** » Wed May 02, 2007 12:58 pm

You mean like.... Core Decision....

DarkHorse · Post by **DarkHorse** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:11 am

Similar ideas maybe, but you need something distinctly new to get enough interest to make a viable product. A straight-out clone of a game that has long since fallen from favour is just going to flop.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:42 pm

It wont take much to instill interest in a 6DOF game like Core Decision...the glut of FPS is hard to believe, with little change in the gameplay or mechanics.

Descent already has a HUGE player base, from people who've played any of the 3 games, and it wont take much to generate some enthusiasm over a quality product that takes that addictive gameplay and makes
it better, or at the least up to current hardware specs.

When CD really takes off, there will be more interest generated in a continuation of the Descent series; though it then will have quite a standard to meet up to in order to equal CD.
(I DO think that CD will be as good if not better than D3)

RM

Jon the Great · Post by **Jon the Great** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:53 pm

*JBOMB* wrote:btw...welcome to 4 years ago

Haha!

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:55 am

ReadyMan wrote:It wont take much to instill interest in a 6DOF game like Core Decision...the glut of FPS is hard to believe, with little change in the gameplay or mechanics.

While I believe that the genre as a whole has not changed much, I don't think there is a "glut." Very few FPS games manage to enter the limelight. In the last five years, we've seen Half-Life 2 (and mods), Doom 3, Quake 4, Prey, and Halo become the primary FPS games. Compare that small number to the enormous third-person genre.

Evolution is slow in the FPS world, but it does happen. Certainly, Half-Life 2 is not Wolfenstein 3D. Half-Life 2 brought incredible art direction and honed the enigmatic storytelling mechanics of the first game. Prey had the ability to twist and contort gravity and chase yourself through portals. STALKER has introduced a promising new, open world variant of the genre. Bioshock, if successful, will perfect some of the mechanics that made System Shock such a cult hit.

So, while the Dooms and the Unreal Tournaments don't really move us forward, there are others that have.

ReadyMan wrote:Descent already has a HUGE player base, from people who've played any of the 3 games

I wouldn't kid myself like that. If the 360 3D concept really was popular, then either Descent 3 would have been a financial success or there would be other developers and publishers leaping forward to produce another game in that genre.

Descent is an old, musty memory to most gamers. Genres come and go for a reason. The trend in today's games leans hugely toward simplification. The majority of gamers don't buy joysticks anymore - that's a simple fact. The majority of gamers don't want to learn controls beyond WASD and the mouse. Every game has an obligatory "tutorial level" to explain the mechanics. It's all very hand-holding.

This in and of itself does not imply that another Descent would be a failure. Certainly, if one tried to appease the hardcore FPS demographic by simplifying the flight controls down to Prey or Unreal Tournament 2004's level, there could be success. Obviously, the hardcore Descenters would abhor such a change. Tough for them. Insomuch as the "community" would refuse to admit it, it ain't worth a hill of beans when you have to sell a quarter of a million copies of a game to break even.

ReadyMan wrote:When CD really takes off, there will be more interest generated in a continuation of the Descent series; though it then will have quite a standard to meet up to in order to equal CD.

Perhaps. Honestly, if Parallax and Interplay were to come to some kind of agreement, Descent could probably gain an inexpensive second life on Xbox Live.

Consider also the unique control mechanics of systems like the Wii and the DS and how they could effectively simplify the bestial controls of Descent. It's all about ease of use and accessibility. Some of the best games are built on a handful of functions.

Descent is up for grabs?

Descent is up for grabs?

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