"Tween Heaven and Hell

[woodchip]

So I've been wondering, now that religious thread are de riguer, just what is heaven? I mean, what do you do there? Do you sit around on puffy clouds all day eating bon bons while watching pink prancing ponies? What happens after you have deflowered your allotted 70 virgins? Eternity is a pretty long time and one could get seriously bored doing nothing. So are there any hints in any of the great theological books of what we will do once we pass from this plane of uncertainty? And no this is not a trick question.

[flip]

The Bible never claims we will live in heaven per say, it says that this earth will be destroyed and then recreated,( No one knows if the physics will change) and the earth will become the seat of God's throne. The spirits(or some type of energy) of those who are redeemed are promised to be clothed in the same type of body that Jesus arose with. I have been thinking about this alot lately. I believe just as God put man on this earth to explore and subdue it, as rulers with Him of the seen world, we will be able to go anywhere in the Universe to explore it too. I base this on the fact that on the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus body was lit up like the sun, along with Elijah and Moses. Crazy to some I guess, but it doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. Somebody took all the little pieces everything is made of(atoms) and arranged them intelligently, so I'm gonna hope for it.

[CUDA]

the 70 Virgins is a Muslim thing

"Joy is the business of heaven." -C.S. Lewis

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the Throne saying, 'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them. They will be his people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.' He who was seated on the Throne said, 'I am making everything new!'" - Revelation 21:1-4

Does Heaven awaken for you a sense of anticipation, or does it evoke visions of monotonous and boring inactivity?

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/heaven.html

read here

[vision]

But what to do for eternity?

[Spidey]

Heaven and Hell are constructs used for behavior training.

[Heretic]

the 70 Virgins is a Muslim thing

Now you didn't think olde woody would post any thing without bringing up a Muslim thing did you?

[vision]

I believe just as God put man on this earth to explore and subdue it, as rulers with Him of the seen world, we will be able to go anywhere in the Universe to explore it too.

Well, there is no need to wait until the end of the world to explore the universe. Why don't you throw all your support behind science if you think it's our destiny to conquer the cosmos? We're already making a good effort in our solar system.

[CUDA]

But what to do for eternity?

what do you want to do?

[vision]

But what to do for eternity?

what do you want to do?

Destroy the universe. I'll have eternity to do it too.

[callmeslick]

But what to do for eternity?

it there are trout, one could tie flies.....but, that's just me.

seriously, a good question being posed in this thead. The responses should be varied and fascinating. I'll get some popcorn!

[CUDA]

But what to do for eternity?

what do you want to do?

Destroy the universe. I'll have eternity to do it too.

well if you don't want to have a legitimate discussion just say so

[CUDA]

I see no no reason why you will not be allowed to do just about anything.

bearing in mind that this is a place where there is no sin. so that rules out the 70 Virgins. sorry Woodchip

[Top Gun]

Do you sit around on puffy clouds all day eating bon bons while watching pink prancing ponies?

Heaven is for bronies. Called it.

I've never given a whole lot of thought to it myself (figure I'll find out if/when I get there), but I always felt like the description at the end of The Chronicles of Narnia was pretty much what I'd want if I had my choice.

[CUDA]

Heaven is for bronies. Called it.

you 100% positive about that

[Tunnelcat]

But what to do for eternity?

what do you want to do?

Why destroy it? I think it would be awesome to go out and explore the universe. You wouldn't need a ship or have to worry about those pesky radiation, atmosphere and gravity inconveniences. It would take eternity just to see everything!

Heaven and Hell are constructs used for behavior training.

ROFL!

[vision]

Destroy the universe. I'll have eternity to do it too.

well if you don't want to have a legitimate discussion just say so

I'm serious. I can't think of anything more interesting that taking the universe and breaking it down to it's fundamental pieces, then later, putting it back together in a different way. It's the minimalist artist in me. Besides, God can probably make me a universe of my own if I wanted. Or two or three or four-hundred trillion. Though I suspect even that would get boring after a while. In fact, the idea of having an eternal consciousness seems more like hell to me. So maybe heaven would be not going at all.

[CUDA]

Well you do have that choice

[Tunnelcat]

Destroy the universe. I'll have eternity to do it too.

well if you don't want to have a legitimate discussion just say so

I'm serious. I can't think of anything more interesting that taking the universe and breaking it down to it's fundamental pieces, then later, putting it back together in a different way. It's the minimalist artist in me. Besides, God can probably make me a universe of my own if I wanted. Or two or three or four-hundred trillion. Though I suspect even that would get boring after a while. In fact, the idea of having an eternal consciousness seems more like hell to me. So maybe heaven would be not going at all.

Hmmmmm. That sounds interesting too. But you're right, it would get boring after eternity spent doing it.

What's weird is that my husband and I were having a morbid discussion along these lines just the other day. One thing we absolutely did agree upon was that neither of us EVER wanted to be reincarnated back on this earth, in any way, shape or form, if God did that with souls that is. Living on Earth is just a form of hell anyway.

[vision]

Living on Earth is just a form of hell anyway.

That's cool you brought this up. Let's not forget there are heavens and hells other than just the popular monotheistic ones. This reminds me of the concept of samsara, where being driven into life and reincarnation is really the conceptual hell we all experience, and the goal is to reach nirvana (which can be attained while alive to a significant degree). I find this world-view much more appealing. You don't have to die to get to heaven!

[flip]

Vision ,I wholeheartedly believe in Physical Science. Just as Descartes believed in it, that it is the trunk from which all other science must grow from and those that contradict it must be pruned away from. Physics is pure, observable truth. I'm a lover of science, but only when it makes sense.

[Foil]

Even growing up as a Christian, I've always found the common picture of Heaven as nothing but an ethereal everlasting-communion/worship as a bit strange.

I figured that if God knew me, he'd know exactly what I wanted, whether it was to spend a few millenium with Him learning about the structure of time and space, or to spend a few days talking with my favorite author about their works, or to roam the universe to see what's out there, or perhaps just to learn to play the guitar and jam for a few years with folks...

I suppose I always felt that for someone to tell me, "Heaven is like X", was to place artificial limitations on what it could be.

[vision]

I'm a lover of science, but only when it makes sense.

Well certainly you might have to bend a little as not everything that is true in science makes sense, right? I mean, people don't naturally grasp space-time, but it's still true.

[flip]

I just go where the math leads me. It's because we don't fully understand that i keep my mind open and refuse to make up my mind until my doubts are satisfied. Science has revealed how by particle bombardment from the sun is the process by which elements are created, yet, that describes some chaotic process. That opens up a world of possibilities.

[Gooberman]

Heaven is a half empty starbucks and a good book

[Spidey]

I find it quite odd that people seem to think heaven could be a place where earthly desires would be fulfilled, it’s much more likely that any earthly desires would have to be fulfilled while still here on earth, because more than likely any afterlife will be very different than anything we as humans could possibly imagine, and human desires would most likely be rendered meaningless.

[snoopy]

I've got a few thoughts to throw out there on heaven... it is interesting seeing people's responses:

1. On the aspect of boredom: Here on this earth, there are things that can hold me entranced for a while, but eventually they lose their luster because I feel that I've fully explored the thing or I feel its let me down or I realize that it just isn't that great. Now, try to imagine something that permanently retains it "new thing" luster & grip on your interest & attention. I think that worshiping God in heaven will be like that. I think it'll simply never get old or boring.

2. On the aspect of what you can or can't do: Because of #1, I don't think it really matters (in a sense). I think that all you'll ever want to do is worship God. You might go out and explore the universe, or do whatever else... but you'll always be doing it with a 100% motivation of worshiping God... there will be no competing interests or mixed emotions.

3. On the aspect of this earth: You have to admit that there are some aspects of this earth that are good, and that you'd miss if you left. Now imagine a new earth that was built "from the ground up" that contained every single one of the good things you find on this earth, and zero of the bad things.... that's the new earth that God intends to make.... so all of the things that you want to leave behind will be gone in the new earth.

4. On the aspect of earthly/heavenly desires: I've already stated that I think we will really only have one desire: to worship God. I think that here on this earth, the sum total of human desires can be boiled down into two different categories: (If you want to be technical, I think that all desires contain aspects of two categories) First, desires to glorify God and second desires to glorify ourselves. In heaven I think that all of the first will remain, and all of the second will disappear. It may not be all that easy to see how "I'm hungry, lets go get a ham sandwich" can stem from my two "root" desires, but I think it can... as is true for all of our desires.

[flip]

In every instance in the Bible, when a man encountered God, he fell to the ground, and almost immediately he was pulled back up to his feet. I guess that the meaning of worship should be defined here.

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth

I just don't want people to get the idea that were gonna be on our knees all day and running around and chanting and stuff. If God made this world in such the way as he did the next one is gonna have to be better, or we will be better suited for it . When God made Adam he had a vision for man and the world, and God does not change. We are co-heirs with Him, not objects to feed his ego, but family instead.

[Tunnelcat]

Living on Earth is just a form of hell anyway.

That's cool you brought this up. Let's not forget there are heavens and hells other than just the popular monotheistic ones. This reminds me of the concept of samsara, where being driven into life and reincarnation is really the conceptual hell we all experience, and the goal is to reach nirvana (which can be attained while alive to a significant degree). I find this world-view much more appealing. You don't have to die to get to heaven!

But what is "alive"? Is a material body required to be alive, or can pure energy that does not consist of a solid substance (matter as we think of), be coherent enough to have sentience? Do we "evolve" into another dimension or form of energy when our bodies die? And is that energy put back into the system, Earth, or does it go elsewhere?

I was watching that new Discovery Channel program called "Frozen Planet" last night and it gave me an Epiphany. Very cool show by the way. What struck me is that all living things only do 4 things on this planet after they are born. They either go around constantly looking or killing for food to fuel their bodies, look for others of their kind in order to reproduce, modify the environment to suit their needs and then die and become fuel for other life forms. That's it, over and over and over like a giant recycler. What's the point? It almost seems like life is someone's experimental trial on a bunch of little organic robots created for the purpose of who knows what????

[CUDA]

Heaven is a half empty starbucks and a good book

my wife would agree with you.