Descent 1 1/2

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:07 pm

Fusion bounces off his front. It's the D3 final boss that you can do that with.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:24 pm

I think he was referring to the duplication glitch.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:07 am

I never knew whether fusion actually damaged his back if shot from the front. It probably does, why else would there be a deterring mechanism?

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:21 am

To help you figure out that you're not supposed to do it?
The more clues you're given the more likely you are to actually beat it.

EDIT: Playing a couple of the levels I missed, with an eye and an ear out for the midi music. Couple ideas (again) to throw out there for you to do, or not do, as you please with.
D1 level 18 for Quaoar Alcane Mine
D1 level 8 for The Cauldron (and put 10 back on Mars!

)
D1 level 6, 16, or 20 for Ktsch'k W'eng II
D1 level 13 for Zandura II
D1 level 5 for Sheltem Mech Factory
D1 level 4 for Reactor Ohm (though I still think it's the perfect song for Circularis, but I digress)
D1 level 10 for Chi Institute
D1 level 15 or 19 for PTMC Supreme Gate 88888888 (love that name

)

If D1 level 7 isn't going to be in The Grandcrisp Oven it would probably work well for Vertigo Engine.

Took a look through Ku'thaaz G'herb-ilk Station the other day and I still can't see the D1 level 16 track working there -- the level's just too un-creepy for such a moody song even with the large rooms. 17 or 18 would work a lot better there I think, unless the level is made much darker.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:32 pm

Was busy reinstalling stuff last night so didn't get to double check, but I think the "invulnerability spot" is actually determined by comparing the direction the projectile is traveling to the direction the boss is facing... so Fusion wouldn't work that way unless you HAM hacked it to have negative speed and shot it at the boss out your backside.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:00 pm

EDIT: Playing a couple of the levels I missed, with an eye and an ear out for the midi music. Couple ideas (again) to throw out there for you to do, or not do, as you please with.
D1 level 18 for Quaoar Alcane Mine

Too obvious. Just because the level is green? In fact to me the track was so fitting for Miranda because of its lablike aspects, not because of the greens

D1 level 8 for The Cauldron (and put 10 back on Mars! )

Obvious too, but I like it anyway. I wonder how it'll feel.

The rest is quite ok I guess. I'll think about all this later. Overall we're perhaps overlooking the fact that once a track is chosen, whether you think it's appropriate or not - it WILL imprint on the listener and make him associate it with that level. This had so much of an effect on us back in actual D1 that we're now trying to choose the same tracks for levels that remind us the most of those ones. It's not like the choice of music couldn't have been any better in Descent. We just remember it the way it was done, and choose it as our standard. But instead of emulating, we can set our own standard, because like I said, people will in time imprint on whichever track we pick for whichever level. The track doesn't have to match the level, it grows to match the level. And it's part of creating the level's atmosphere. Some aspects of the level can work against what the music provides and vice versa, but still - music is such a subjective thing that even if we literally chose the tracks randomly with no rhyme and reason, it would be fine anyway. The fact that we're putting any consideration into this at all is IMO already something

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Xfing wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:00 pm
EDIT: Playing a couple of the levels I missed, with an eye and an ear out for the midi music. Couple ideas (again) to throw out there for you to do, or not do, as you please with.
D1 level 18 for Quaoar Alcane Mine
Too obvious. Just because the level is green? In fact to me the track was so fitting for Miranda because of its lablike aspects, not because of the greens

No actually because I thought the repetitive bassline and synths feel almost like a musical representation of that interconnected "ring" that the level is built around.
But if you think players will take it that way, I'll suggest it for L'aeeve Installation instead

-- a level which I'm cleaning up a bit right now.

EDIT: X, Sirius
I was just testing Glacierspire and found a way to finish it without the yellow key. I'm not entirely sure how, but it seems like a secret door leading into the yellow door area got opened from the outside. Was this by design?

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:22 pm

May I claim Remote Tracking Station before someone else does?

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:44 pm

Oh... the thief is in there, isn't he?

Ugh. Will need to move him.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:14 pm

Would be a nice trick if you're lucky enough though.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:42 pm

D2 level 14 had a bug like that where if one of the it droids in the secret areas near the red door saw you early enough, it would go around through the secrets and open the red door from inside. The red door was apparently only flagged red on the outside.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:36 am

I remember encountering that once.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:28 am

Actually no, the thief is not in there, he's behind the blue door.

That pretty much leaves... some random robot behind that door to do it? ITSC or something? Pretty weird. They shouldn't really be moving if they can't see you and I wouldn't have thought they could see you through a closed secret door...

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:02 am

Hmm... you could lock it and have it unlock on a fly-through when a player passes the yellow door.
That would allow it to keep up its purpose which I assume is for co-op.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:55 am

LightWolf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:22 pm May I claim Remote Tracking Station before someone else does?

Dunno, depends what type of level you want to make it. We've ran free rein for too much of the Vertigo section, now we kinda need to take a direction with these levels.

To be truthful though, I think we're good. Naphtha will probably be eager to take some of these spots once he's done with Plutonian Shores, and I'd really like to see more of his levels in this set.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:33 pm

As well as finishing a song for Glacierspire the other day I was going through some songs I wrote a few years ago for mission ideas that wound up unfinished for whatever reason, and found a couple really nice gems, one that would work on Circularis and one that's perfect for Zandura II as it was written for a level idea that would been very similar. So those are on the google drive now too, if Naptha or Lightwolf would like to take a look -- I organized them so that you should just be able to search by the level name.

If you're putting the HMP suggestion in the HOG you might as well put the HMQ in too -- that's one of the good ones!

I'm not sure what you tried to accomplish by putting the reactor behind a removable fence in Zandura II -- you can still shoot at it with narrow projectiles like lasers but it can't shoot at you. So there isn't any reason for a player to figure out how to remove the grate.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:58 pm

I was planning on doing the "Puuma Prime" level in RTS.

Blame X for the grate in Z2.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:22 pm

I... don't care who's fault it is, I'm just pointing out what might or might not be faulty thinking.
Making the mission pack as good as I can.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:23 am

Well, we could go with cloaked walls instead, so you won't be able to shoot the reactor either

Or just a traditional pillar. Though to be fair, having the reactor locked in until you take care of all the remaining opposition would probably make this reactor room a bit too easy. Hmmmm, what to do? This is a good question.

I think I'll remove the grating but leave the switch in and just add some locked goodie compartments in the chamber that it will open up.

EDIT: Yeah, I did just that.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:58 pm

Missed a couple single sides of the reactor cage.

Fix

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:02 am

Thanks for that. I always thought that once you remove a wall, both sides get removed. Kinda weird it's not the case.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:20 am

You need to check the "use both sides" option in the walls tab.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:19 pm

Although, word to the wise: don't add control panels using that tab with "use both sides" checked for now. Patch pending but it currently crashes.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:34 pm

I always use the auto-wall of the "add trigger" function for that, so...

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:14 pm

Sirius wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:19 pm Although, word to the wise: don't add control panels using that tab with "use both sides" checked for now. Patch pending but it currently crashes.

Oh way to go buddy, that explains it...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:15 pm

So any updates there? I"m sorry, I haven't been able to design anything myself lately. Guess the well of ideas has run dry for now. Also, I think this project's scope has actually outgrown my own level building skills, so I'd rather let better people make them

I'll definitely make some more levels in the future, though for this project I think I'll stick with secondary mapping and quality control, at least for now.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:45 pm

Xfing wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:15 pm So any updates there? I"m sorry, I haven't been able to design anything myself lately. Guess the well of ideas has run dry for now. Also, I think this project's scope has actually outgrown my own level building skills, so I'd rather let better people make them

I'll definitely make some more levels in the future, though for this project I think I'll stick with secondary mapping and quality control, at least for now.

I always seem to start with a hub area and the red key/reactor area, so that's what I've got so far. Lot of stuff picking up elsewhere so I'm a little slow on mapping again, sorry!

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:52 pm

I actually have a mostly complete level, just needs a red key area.
Been stuck on that area for a while now, if anyone wants a shot.

Speaking of that level, after designing a chunk of it I noticed it looks quite secret level-y, so I was wondering if I could take the unnamed Vertigo SL.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:37 am

Added a control panel to level 27 opposite the problematic door to unlock it. That should fix the problem.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu May 03, 2018 5:48 am

Sirius wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:37 am Added a control panel to level 27 opposite the problematic door to unlock it. That should fix the problem.

Sweet, thanks for that!

I've been even less focused on this thing recently, since Overload is a thing, and it understandably eclipses some of my interest in Descent, but luckily playing through Cererian Expedition has rekindled my interest in the base game. I think I'll try designing another level for the Solar System inspired by that mission (which in turn was heavily inspired by D1 itself). And it's going to have a maze. Definitely a maze. Ha.

(though due to this being so early in the mission, I probably won't be putting in anything more threatening than a couple Medium Hulks).

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 am

There's nothing stopping us from doing another truly scary maze later in the mission either...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu May 03, 2018 8:06 am

Alter-Fox wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 am There's nothing stopping us from doing another truly scary maze later in the mission either...

Of course not!

BTW, spurred by a sudden and powerful surge of inspiration, I've already laid out 450 cubes of the Enceladus level. Trying to make the geometry reasonably simple, but I'm really inefficient with cubes. Plenty of tunnels in this one, to help genuine D1 feelz like those Cererian Expedition conveyed. Still haven't touched the maze though, but I'll get there

EDIT: 899 cubes already mapped out! This is the fastest I've ever laid out an entire level. Now just to texture this and you might see my submission as early as tomorrow.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:46 am

Ok, Enceladus is up on Dropbox, it's level 7. No hostages yet and some textures might still be missing, but overall it's pretty much done. I tried my best to make it as D1-ish as possible, all feedback is welcome

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat May 05, 2018 3:47 pm

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sat May 05, 2018 6:40 pm

That Enceladus?

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun May 06, 2018 2:42 am

LightWolf wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 6:40 pm That Enceladus?

How astute of you

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sun May 20, 2018 7:32 am

I made some time for a quick fly-through on break yesterday. The level is really nice, reminds me a lot of D1's mazier maps like 5 or 9 or 18, but with more verticality.
Only thing I'll criticize is that I don't think the metal lab textures fit the theme very well. They feel kinda shoehorned in.
The blues work great though.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 pm

There's a grate in a ceiling that's flagged as requiring the yellow key. Kinda funny to shoot a random grate and hear the locked door sound with "Yellow access denied".

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sun May 20, 2018 12:58 pm

LightWolf wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 pm There's a grate in a ceiling that's flagged as requiring the yellow key. Kinda funny to shoot a random grate and hear the locked door sound with "Yellow access denied".

Where exactly is it? No idea what you're talking about.

Alter-Fox wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 7:32 am I made some time for a quick fly-through on break yesterday. The level is really nice, reminds me a lot of D1's mazier maps like 5 or 9 or 18, but with more verticality.
Only thing I'll criticize is that I don't think the metal lab textures fit the theme very well. They feel kinda shoehorned in.
The blues work great though.

Well, I could go with the pink ones instead, but the level would probably feel a bit too pink then. I want Makemake to be the pinkest one

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Sun May 20, 2018 1:53 pm

The floor in segment 633. It's right outside the red door.