Science and Ethics

Hahnenkam · Post by **Hahnenkam** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:58 am

From the NY Times

This pisses me off and makes me sad at the same time. He's smart, young, and friendly; Now his career is trashed. However it doesn't affect his career alone. Everything with his name on it will be viewed with suspicion, regardless of what the news says.

My old lab co-authored a paper with this guy . . . my only publication so far. Not a big deal really, but I will have to consider if it's worth it to include the paper on my cv/resume.

It's too bad some people can't see past their own ambition, and how they impact other people's lives.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:35 am

yup, read about it on Slashdot a few days ago. This really sucks --- especially if it also affects your publication

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:30 pm

Quote from NT Times Article:

Cases of research misconduct - making up data, changing the data or the results to misrepresent experiments, or copying other scientists' work - are relatively rare. In the decade ending in 2002, there were about 50 cases of misconduct involving research sponsored by the National Science Foundation and 137 cases involving research financed by the National Institutes of Health.

It only takes one spec of dirt to make pure water unclean. And unfortunately it also affects everyone who drinks from the glass. Hopefully this guy's selfish act won't have too big an imapact on you and everyone else involved in your research. Sometimes "good" people do really stupid things - what a jerk!

De Rigueur · Post by **De Rigueur** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:24 pm

Hahnenkam wrote:It's too bad some people can't see past their own ambition, and how they impact other people's lives.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:41 pm

This happens a lot.

Mostly it goes undetected however - or at least, unacknowledged.

There's nothing sacred about "scientists" when it comes to basic human behaviour: they lie, cheat, steal, make-up, falsify, turn a blind eye, find what they expect to...

Particularly in Climate Science.

Sadly, scientists need funding, and many will do whatever it takes to get that funding. One of the mechanisms enabling this is making dire predictions about the future.

One way we can tell scientists have no clue about the climate, is that no prediction has EVER come true, about climate, nor Human influence upon it.

Iceman · Post by **Iceman** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:17 pm

I see how this really sucks from your perspective. I hate it for you.

He's smart, young, and friendly; Now his career is trashed.

Are you sympathetic to him on this issue? If so I have to disagree with you vehemently. He got what he deserved ... you lie and cheat and get caught and you get screwed. He knew the consequences of this ahead of time.

Hahnenkam · Post by **Hahnenkam** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:34 pm

Iceman wrote:Are you sympathetic to him on this issue?

Absolutely not. He made conscious choices and deserves whatever repercussions come his way. He lied to the federal government and earned millions of dollars in grant funds that could have gone to legitimate research . . . he's in deep crap and he earned it.

I suppose what I meant, what is so unfortunate about it, is that he didn't need to lie. He really was very good. Perhaps if he hadn't faked his data, he wouldn't have risen through the ranks as quickly as he did, but he would have reached the same (or similar) status eventually. I think it's sad when anyone wastes such potential.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:06 pm

Hahnenkam wrote:I will have to consider if it's worth it to include the paper on my cv/resume.

Definitely. If you don't include it but someone googles for you and finds it, all of a sudden it looks like you have something to hide. If you're up front about it, and people ask "hey, wasn't this guy discredited?" you can give them a straightforward answer.

I have to say, I agree with Mobi... "There's nothing sacred about "scientists" when it comes to basic human behaviour: they lie, cheat, steal, make-up, falsify, turn a blind eye, find what they expect to..." It's just as wrong as any other high-profile lying, cheating, etc. and those who do it should not be given any leeway.

De Rigueur · Post by **De Rigueur** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:26 pm

Mobius wrote:There's nothing sacred about "scientists" when it comes to basic human behaviour: they lie, cheat, steal, make-up, falsify, turn a blind eye, find what they expect to...

So scientist have the same potential for bad behavior as, say, televangelists? Maybe Feyerabend had a point after all.

This changes everything. If we can't trust scientists to let us know what things are weird to believe, then how will we be able to think critically?

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:54 pm

Did everybody just feel the earth move? That was me agreeing with Mobi AND Lothar at the same time. I may need a few days to recover

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:41 pm

Dedman wrote:Did everybody just feel the earth move?

There I thought it was my bowels.

Hahnenkam · Post by **Hahnenkam** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:25 pm

Dedman wrote:Did everybody just feel the earth move? That was me agreeing with Mobi AND Lothar at the same time.

If you agree with Woodchip next, I'm going to start preparing for the apocolypse.

Dedman · Post by **Dedman** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:33 pm

Hahnenkam wrote:
Dedman wrote:Did everybody just feel the earth move? That was me agreeing with Mobi AND Lothar at the same time.
If you agree with Woodchip next, I'm going to start preparing for the apocolypse.

I agree with Woodchip from time to time.

Hahnenkam · Post by **Hahnenkam** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:34 am

Dedman wrote:I agree with Woodchip from time to time.

the end is nigh

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