observing religions

[snoopy]

I've heard comments on the board recently that got me thinking.

People have compared the conquests, jihadists, and genenrally fanatic religous types- stating that not all (insert religion here)ists are killers or or extremists. Likewise, people have claimed that people of any religion can be peaceful and not make waves. I agree.

I would like to clarify one thing, though. There is a difference between religions when it comes to extremism. Some religions encourage extreme actions, while others don't. I'm going to pick on Christianity and Islam. In the case of Christianity, extreme activities such as the crusades are a misrespesentation of the teachings of the religion. In the case of Islam, Jihad is an integral part of the teachings of the religion. Therefore, peaceful Muslums arn't properly observing their religion's teachings, while peaceful Christians are.

I just want things to be clear- not all religions are equal in terms of pacifism and human rights.

[roid]

perhaps it would be good to quickly introduce the word \"FUNDAMENTALIM\" (instead of Extremism) into the thread if it hasn't been already.

So you are defining the fundamentals of Christianity.. sure, you can do that - i'd consider you an expert. My own experience with scewed-fundamental christianity was a non-violent one too.

But are you as qualified to define the fundamentals of Islam?

I've yet to be convinced that violence is a fundamental doctrine of Islam, as this would indicate that the only True Muslims are violent anti-social ones. And since most mulsims are obviously NOT violent and anti-social - it's not adding up. You'd be essentially accusing the majority Islam of being heretics to their own faith.

Will Robinson screaming about nukes and saying \"but all Muslims ARE bad\" in 5 4 3 2...

[dissent]

I'm a Roman Catholic, and I admit to considerable ignorance regarding Islam. I did a little googling around, and I'm finding this to make for some interesting reading.

In general, I am finding it fairly hard as to where to call BS when certain people are making claims about Islam. *sigh*

[Will Robinson]

....Will Robinson screaming about nukes and saying "but all Muslims ARE bad" in 5 4 3 2...

Interesting, apparently the only way you can refute my position is to completely misrepresent it first then try to attack the strawman you constructed! Ironic since it was you who was crying moments ago in another thread about a similar tactic.
I guess a man's got to know his limitations....

[Top Wop]

Mohammed:

Koran 5:51
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Koran 9:28-30
O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

vs

Jesus:

Luke 6:27-31
\"But if you are willing to listen, I say, love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. Pray for the happiness of those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other cheek. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give what you have to anyone who asks you for it; and when things are taken away from you, don't try to get them back. Do for others as you would like them to do for you.\"

The fundamental differences are quite interesting to say the least.

[roid]

have a sense of humour Will.

this is the first i've mentioned of your constant \"OMG NUKES NUKES NUUUUUUUUUUKES!!!!\" scaremongering. Every post there it was - nukes nukes nukes. I can't help it if the chest thumpin far right warmongers are their own parodys. I guess the choice is to either laugh or cry.

oh and welcome to the thread, hurry and say something controversial damit

[Dakatsu]

Wonder why I believe organized religion is the end of civilization, those kinds of quotes are exactly why!

[roid]

*Sigh* Top Wop that's the kindof thing i'm talkin about. Posting 2 carefully chosen bits from each book and using it to try to convinve people that muslims are bad.

Who comes up with this stuff? Would you like me to name the PR companys? lol, i can't.. BUT IT'S THEM BEHIND IT I TELLS YA! Far Right Think Tanks, comming up with campaigns to try to influence things in their favour. Muslims are bad, horray for Conservative Christianity. Morbo will destory Public Relations lies in his mighty jaws! RAAARGH

[Dakatsu]

*Sigh* Top Wop that's the kindof thing i'm talkin about. Posting 2 carefully chosen bits from each book and using it to try to convinve people that muslims are bad.

Who comes up with this stuff? Would you like me to name the PR companys? lol, i can't.. BUT IT'S THEM BEHIND IT I TELLS YA! Far Right Think Tanks, comming up with campaigns to try to influence things in their favour. Muslims are bad, horray for Conservative Christianity. Morbo will destory Public Relations lies in his mighty jaws! RAAARGH

It isn't just Islam, I don't favor any organized religion. Christianity says that you should kill gays by throwing rocks at them. It also preaches that everyone who doesn't believe will go to hell. I am okay with individual beliefs, but I believe organized religion is the fall of man, and woman especially because of how sexist some quotes are in the bible and quran.

[Duper]

Christianity says that you should kill gays by throwing rocks at them.

um no.

That's Mosaic Law.

[Dakatsu]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I froget which ones get stoned, but I know they should die according to the bible.

[Duper]

Those who have sex with animals.

[Flabby Chick]

Religion isn't the problem, humans are.

[TIGERassault]

Christianity says that you should kill gays by throwing rocks at them.

Only some Protestant churches say that. The Catholic church does not, because the church does nt take it's beliefs directly from the bible.

Will Robinson screaming about nukes and saying "but all Muslims ARE bad" in 5 4 3 2...

What? Now you're just being biased! Will knows that most Muslims are good. However, due to his lack of self-awareness, he doesn't realise that Muslims are as human as he is.

I'm being serious here.

[Will Robinson]

Will knows that most Muslims are good. However, due to his lack of self-awareness, he doesn't realise that Muslims are as human as he is.

I'm being serious here.

You don't know me and have proven that you have a hard time understanding even the simplest of sentences composed of short words and easy to follow logic so spare us your analysis.

I've never said anything about all muslims, however when I say that all the 9/11 hijackers were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40....that is an important piece of factual data. Especially if you anticipate another attempt from the same islamo-facsists that have been at this for a very long time. Much longer than G.W. Bush has been stirring the pot!


*In 1972 at the Munich Olympics,athletes were kidnapped and massacred

*In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran, was taken over

*1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon

*In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up

*In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair

*In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered

*In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed

*In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time

*In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed

*On 11 September 2001 four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted to a crash by the
passengers.

In all of those attacks the perpetrators were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40!!
So excuse me if I think we shouldn't pay a little extra attention to that group!

And if you are so stupid to just ignore the obvious and instead of engaging in an honest discussion want to dismiss my mentioning these facts as fear mongoring or plain bigotry then I have to wonder, are you really that stupid or just that well programmed to hate all things supported by the rightwing that you would make all of us more vulnerable just so you can toe the party line?!?!

[TIGERassault]

Will knows that most Muslims are good. However, due to his lack of self-awareness, he doesn't realise that Muslims are as human as he is.

I'm being serious here.

You don't know me and have proven that you have a hard time understanding even the simplest of sentences composed of short words and easy to follow logic so spare us your analysis.

I've never said anything about all muslims, however when I say that all the 9/11 hijackers were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40....that is an important piece of factual data. Especially if you anticipate another attempt from the same islamo-facsists that have been at this for a very long time. Much longer than G.W. Bush has been stirring the pot!


*In 1972 at the Munich Olympics,athletes were kidnapped and massacred

*In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran, was taken over

*1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon

*In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up

*In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair

*In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered

*In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed

*In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time

*In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed

*On 11 September 2001 four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted to a crash by the
passengers.

In all of those attacks the perpetrators were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40!!
So excuse me if I think we shouldn't pay a little extra attention to that group!

And if you are so stupid to just ignore the obvious and instead of engaging in an honest discussion want to dismiss my mentioning these facts as fear mongoring or plain bigotry then I have to wonder, are you really that stupid or just that well programmed to hate all things supported by the rightwing that you would make all of us more vulnerable just so you can toe the party line?!?!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Oh, sorry. For a while there, it looked like you were arguing agaist the "Will knows that most Muslims are good" point!
But then I realised that you were arguing against something of an entirely different topic.

A Summary:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'all muslims are evil' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think all muslims are evil!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate my statement with a list of evil muslims."

[Flabby Chick]

You forgot quite a few there Will; Madrid, London (including the recent foiled attempt)and a few others over the years but never mind. The point is; the vast majority of large scale attacks in the last couple of decades have been carried out by young Muslims. Yes, a white guy blew up Oklahoma, yes a mormon called Phil may in the future make a pipe bomb and blow up Wallmart.

You can't argue with the statistics that say, now in the 21st century we are at war (all of us, all religions, all states, including Muslims themselves) with this 17 to 40 year old age group that Will is talking about. If you don't realise this, for lack of a better way to say it....you're phucking stupid.

[Will Robinson]

A Summary:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'all muslims are evil' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think all muslims are evil!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate my statement with a list of evil muslims."

You apparantly aren't smart enough to know the difference between:

'All of a group are X'
...and...
'All of X have come from the same group'.

1)Study the bold part above.
2)Copy it and take it to a teacher and ask for help understanding the difference.
3)Then apply your newly acquired critical thinking skills to the previous posts that have so far eluded the grasp of your mind.

Once you follow these 3 steps let us know because I'd like to be the first to say to you, "Welcome to reality!"

[Zuruck]

Is this turning into another profiling topic?

Get rid of religion, it has been the SOLE cause of all this stuff that we talk about. The ONE AND ONLY cause of this war, the Olympic kidnappings, the majority of the major conflicts in history have all been religious based. Get rid of it, let us see if the world could be a little more harmonious...let's at least give it a try.

I'll bet you'll notice that the world won't stop turning when you stop praying. You'll wake up in the morning the same, Cheerios will taste the same, your car will get the same mileage.

Any takers?

[dissent]

Only some Protestant churches say that. The Catholic church does not, because the church does nt take it's beliefs directly from the bible.

I presume you mean "literally" here. However, some beliefs are literal, some are not.

- back on topic .......

[TIGERassault]

A Summary:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'all muslims are evil' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think all muslims are evil!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate my statement with a list of evil muslims."

You apparantly aren't smart enough to know the difference between:

'All of a group are X'
...and...
'All of X have come from the same group'.

1)Study the bold part above.
2)Copy it and take it to a teacher and ask for help understanding the difference.
3)Then apply your newly acquired critical thinking skills to the previous posts that have so far eluded the grasp of your mind.

Once you follow these 3 steps let us know because I'd like to be the first to say to you, "Welcome to reality!"

Ok then:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'All of a group are X' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think 'All of a group are X'!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate that 'All of X have come from the same group' with a list of evil muslims."

Now, can you spot where that doesn't make sense?

[TIGERassault]

Get rid of religion, it has been the SOLE cause of all this stuff that we talk about. The ONE AND ONLY cause of this war, the Olympic kidnappings, the majority of the major conflicts in history have all been religious based. Get rid of it, let us see if the world could be a little more harmonious...let's at least give it a try.

I'll bet you'll notice that the world won't stop turning when you stop praying. You'll wake up in the morning the same, Cheerios will taste the same, your car will get the same mileage.

Any takers?

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that; it has been proven that religion also makes individual people happier.

[Tricord]

You don't know me and have proven that you have a hard time understanding even the simplest of sentences composed of short words and easy to follow logic so spare us your analysis.

I've never said anything about all muslims, however when I say that all the 9/11 hijackers were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40....that is an important piece of factual data. Especially if you anticipate another attempt from the same islamo-facsists that have been at this for a very long time. Much longer than G.W. Bush has been stirring the pot!


*In 1972 at the Munich Olympics,athletes were kidnapped and massacred

*In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran, was taken over

*1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon

*In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up

*In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair

*In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
trying to rescue passengers was murdered

*In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed

*In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time

*In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed

*On 11 September 2001 four airliners were hijacked; two were used as
missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one
crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted to a crash by the
passengers.

In all of those attacks the perpetrators were muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40!!
So excuse me if I think we shouldn't pay a little extra attention to that group!

And if you are so stupid to just ignore the obvious and instead of engaging in an honest discussion want to dismiss my mentioning these facts as fear mongoring or plain bigotry then I have to wonder, are you really that stupid or just that well programmed to hate all things supported by the rightwing that you would make all of us more vulnerable just so you can toe the party line?!?!

In reply to that list, how many innocent persons have been killed or injured by a drunk driver in the US? I don't know, but I would bet the death toll is a few magnitudes higher. Nation wide alcohol ban then?

Also, pretty much none of these incidents you mention have a relation to each other (except as you say, the responsibles were muslim males and the victims were americans). Even if they were all related and placed in context of the WOT, the US has much more civilian blood on its hands than all muslims together. At least, that's what the muslims think about your country.

Ever hear of the civil war going on in Iraq since dubya stirs the pot? Do you think Joe Schmoe in the Iraqi street is happy with this?

Also (and I'm going to push the enveloppe to illustrate my point) in your line of thought, when do you propose to invade Iran? Or shouldn't you bring down N. Korea first? I'm sure you can find terrorists everywhere, once you get them pissed off enough.

[Kilarin]

how many innocent persons have been killed or injured by a drunk driver in the US?

There were about 17,000 deaths in alcohol related accidents in 2003.

[edit]
I agree that Islamic Extremist are the worst threat right now. But the list does include a lot of people who are not Islamic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... anisations
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/tgpndx.htm

Now many of these groups are very low level threats (at least right now), but not all of them. Some of them were VERY dangerous in the past but have quieted down now, such as The Irish groups (both sides) and the Basque separatists who only just recently declared a cease fire. But many groups are still active and deadly. The Tamil Tigers are a nightmare and have wracked up quite a death toll and Aum Shinrikyo is very scary. And lets not forget the "Shining Path"

So right now, yes, the major threat to Europeans is Islamic Extremist, but that has not always been the case and could change any day.

[Will Robinson]

A Summary:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'all muslims are evil' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think all muslims are evil!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate my statement with a list of evil muslims."

You apparantly aren't smart enough to know the difference between:

'All of a group are X'
...and...
'All of X have come from the same group'.

1)Study the bold part above.
2)Copy it and take it to a teacher and ask for help understanding the difference.
3)Then apply your newly acquired critical thinking skills to the previous posts that have so far eluded the grasp of your mind.

Once you follow these 3 steps let us know because I'd like to be the first to say to you, "Welcome to reality!"

Ok then:
Roid: "Robinson will say that 'All of a group are X' soon."
TIGERassault (in reply to roid): "Robinson des not think 'All of a group are X'!"
WillRobinson (in reply to TIGERassault): "That is not true! I shall validate that 'All of X have come from the same group' with a list of evil muslims."

Now, can you spot where that doesn't make sense?

Yes, it's very easy to spot.
The whole part where you changed what was said and I had responded to, and replaced it with something that wasn't said in an attempt to cover up your imbecilic respose. That makes no sense at all for you to try and pull that off!

[Will Robinson]

So right now, yes, the major threat to Europeans is Islamic Extremist, but that has not always been the case and could change any day.

Yes, it could, and Hitler could have restrained himself at any point in his march across europe too!

[TIGERassault]

Yes, it's very easy to spot.
The whole part where you changed what was said and I had responded to, and replaced it with something that wasn't said in an attempt to cover up your imbecilic respose. That makes no sense at all for you to try and pull that off!

Ok, now I have no idea what you're talking about. If that summary wasn't what was said, then please summarise what was said for me.

[Kilarin]

So right now, yes, the major threat to Europeans is Islamic Extremist, but that has not always been the case and could change any day.

Yes, it could, and Hitler could have restrained himself at any point in his march across europe too!

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was NOT meaning to imply that Islamic Extremist are likely to back down anytime soon. I see no indications of that whatsoever.

What I meant is that any one of these other nasty groups could accelerate themselves up to the top of the list overnight. Aum Shinrikyo in particular makes me very nervous. They might never hurt anyone again, or we may be reading in the papers tomorrow about a million dead in either the US or Japan. Thank goodness they are a fairly small group right now, but that could change. They had a membership of 40,000 at one time.

[Will Robinson]

Ok, now I have no idea what you're talking about. If that summary wasn't what was said, then please summarise what was said for me.

Even if you happen to actually be a fair haired girl you should drop the dumb blonde routine. It's just not working here and it's probably quite insulting to real idiots everywhere.

[Will Robinson]

In reply to that list, how many innocent persons have been killed or injured by a drunk driver in the US? I don't know, but I would bet the death toll is a few magnitudes higher. Nation wide alcohol ban then?

I didn't post the list to support a position of banning anything, muslims or religion etc.
I posted the list to support my contention that the vast majority of terrorist attacks are executed by members of a certain subset of earthlings. And tried to make it clear even to the challenged among us that it isn't racism or bigotry or even war mongoring that motivates me to point it out as has been alleged. It's simply good common sense to know what the most likely delivery vehicle for the problem is even if mentioning it causes members of the subset to feel singled out. they couldn't come to grips with that point in the other thread so they tried it over here, I guess I felt a need to defend my position.

Also, pretty much none of these incidents you mention have a relation to each other (except as you say, the responsibles were muslim males and the victims were americans).

That works out quite nicely since that is the only thing I was trying to get across by bringing it up! All the other assumptions based on my motives are unfounded and an inward glance performed by those who made them might help.

Even if they were all related and placed in context of the WOT, the US has much more civilian blood on its hands than all muslims together. At least, that's what the muslims think about your country.

I'm not sure how this pertains. I wouldn't advocate failing acknowledgment of important data simply because we aren't perfect.

Also (and I'm going to push the enveloppe to illustrate my point) in your line of thought, when do you propose to invade Iran? Or shouldn't you bring down N. Korea first? I'm sure you can find terrorists everywhere, once you get them pissed off enough.

No and it's been discussed at length before.

[TIGERassault]

I didn't post the list to support a position of banning anything, muslims or religion etc.
I posted the list to support my contention that the vast majority of terrorist attacks are executed by members of a certain subset of earthlings. And tried to make it clear even to the challenged among us that it isn't racism or bigotry or even war mongoring that motivates me to point it out as has been alleged. It's simply good common sense to know what the most likely delivery vehicle for the problem is even if mentioning it causes members of the subset to feel singled out. they couldn't come to grips with that point in the other thread so they tried it over here, I guess I felt a need to defend my position.

Oh, so that's why you posted that list. Well, that explains why I couldn't understand you.
I don't know about you, but I'd be willing to bet that most of us stopped posting in the other topic because the methods depended entirely on opinions, such as how much privacy a person should give up in return for a bit of safety.

[Mobius]

Fundamentalist Christians scare me more than radical Islamists - believe me! And for the USA, it is going to become more and more of an issue, as there are a TON of Fundies in the bible belt - and sadly, they all have votes!

Self-righteous Christian Fundies are as much of a scourge on the face of the earth as any of the worst cases of other religions Snoopy: don't think for a SECOND that these fuckwads don't want to ruin life for everyone on the planet, because they DO!

[Zuruck]

Losing argument Mobius, counter will be that christians don't blow up people on buses and such. I agree with you though, christians have just as much hate as the muslims do, the focus and follow through are different. Just listen to the christian wacks on this board for evidence.

Only in American will a small minority of the people believe a drunk cokehead (Bush) is in the light of some make believe god. This country needs an openly atheistic president...maybe then we could get some balance and have the country start heading the right way again.

[Will Robinson]

Losing argument Mobius, counter will be that christians don't blow up people on buses and such.

You're right Zuruck because that is a distinction that makes a world of difference to a sane person!
See below:

Fundamentalist Christians scare me more than radical Islamists - believe me! And for the USA, it is going to become more and more of an issue, as there are a TON of Fundies in the bible belt - and sadly, they all have votes!

And there has always been a majority of christians here yet per capita they produce a much lower number of suicide bombers, or any other kind of bomber than fundamental islamic groups do. So I think your reasoning for fearing them more is weak.

Self-righteous Christian Fundies are as much of a scourge on the face of the earth as any of the worst cases of other religions Snoopy: don't think for a SECOND that these **** don't want to ruin life for everyone on the planet, because they DO!

I don't get that from their dialogue, they just don't seem to be seeking the ruination of peoples lives. They will include any race or nationality into the fold where many other religions absolutely will not. And I can't find any passages in the bible that teach the christian fundies to treat non christians as less than human and exempt christians from judgement as long as their victims are non believers.
As far as I've been able to learn a christian is forbidden by his religion from all sorts of anti-social and immoral behavior, ranging from lying right up to murdering people. In the teachings of Muhammed the muslim is taught that a lie is a lie unless he lies to an infidel....murder is bad unless you are waging jihad against an infidel then it is not only allowed it is celebrated by the religious leaders and supposedly rewarded in heaven...

So based on that, combined with knowledge of the recent history that clearly shows christian fundies have evolved their beliefs over the centuries where the islamic fundies haven't I'm a little more leary of the Islamic fundies than the christian fundies.

Call me crazy but that stuff matters when picking which fundie I'd rather share a flight with!

[Firewheel]

Oh look, it's another utterly inane post courtesy of Mobius. I don't really know why I'm even bothering- if you really think that \"fundamentalist Christians are a greater threat than Islam!\", then you are obviously so prejudiced that you no longer see this issue rationally and wouldn't listen to anything anybody said. Mobius also seems opposed to their right to vote, but is apparently fine with awarding human rights to a computer if it asks for them (as seen in the \"No heaven on earth?\" thread).

On one hand, I don't really blame him for subscribing to such a view, since this is the image pushed by the media, entertainment industry, etc.: \"The Christians are insane, they're taking over America, they're worse than Muslim extremists!\" Satisfied with this, I doubt he actually did any research.

It might *appear* that this scenario is probable, but let's think for a minute: going by these standards, the United States would have been considered a theocracy prior to the mid-twentieth century or so (though in an effort to remove Christianity from society, schools don't want you to know this.) And I know that the opposite holds true- some Christians uphold the Founding Fathers as flawless individuals, uniformly pious, etc., which I don't believe is true, either. I know I've wandered a bit off track, but the point is, Christianity hasn't been a threat since the middle ages, when the political force Catholic Church led crusades committed other distasteful acts for its own benefit. You may not like Christianity, but making stupid statements only erodes your credibility.

The simple truth is, Christian influence is LOSING impact on American society. Special interest groups, televangelists, etc. have made a lot of noise recently, but this doesn't actually mean Christianity is gaining power. I doubt many more Christians will be elected to office. Who do you think young people will chose? The issue isn't voters in the \"Bible belt\", it's the young voters.

I'm amazed that nobody on this board has noticed how Christianit influence is actually shrinking. Public education and college professors, in particular, have killed off the beliefs of many young adults who don't know how to defend themselves. Ask yourself this question: Is the next generation of Americans more likely to be dreaded fundamentalist bigots, or reflect the \"values\" of their teachers (especially in light of the downfall of families, competent parenting, etc.)?

And on the main topic: You know, I really hope Islam is actually a religion of peace. I don't think it is, but let me tell you, I would love to be wrong. The best we can hope for is that Islamic moderates will come to power in the Middle East.

[TIGERassault]

Losing argument Mobius, counter will be that christians don't blow up people on buses and such.

You're right Zuruck because that is a distinction that makes a world of difference to a sane person!
See below:

Fundamentalist Christians scare me more than radical Islamists - believe me! And for the USA, it is going to become more and more of an issue, as there are a TON of Fundies in the bible belt - and sadly, they all have votes!

And there has always been a majority of christians here yet per capita they produce a much lower number of suicide bombers, or any other kind of bomber than fundamental islamic groups do. So I think your reasoning for fearing them more is weak.

Self-righteous Christian Fundies are as much of a scourge on the face of the earth as any of the worst cases of other religions Snoopy: don't think for a SECOND that these **** don't want to ruin life for everyone on the planet, because they DO!

I don't get that from their dialogue, they just don't seem to be seeking the ruination of peoples lives. They will include any race or nationality into the fold where many other religions absolutely will not. And I can't find any passages in the bible that teach the christian fundies to treat non christians as less than human and exempt christians from judgement as long as their victims are non believers.
As far as I've been able to learn a christian is forbidden by his religion from all sorts of anti-social and immoral behavior, ranging from lying right up to murdering people. In the teachings of Muhammed the muslim is taught that a lie is a lie unless he lies to an infidel....murder is bad unless you are waging jihad against an infidel then it is not only allowed it is celebrated by the religious leaders and supposedly rewarded in heaven...

So based on that, combined with knowledge of the recent history that clearly shows christian fundies have evolved their beliefs over the centuries where the islamic fundies haven't I'm a little more leary of the Islamic fundies than the christian fundies.

Call me crazy but that stuff matters when picking which fundie I'd rather share a flight with!

Well that's not necessarily true because; and you seem to have the opposite opinion to this; how evil someone is is not measured by how much deaths they cause, but by how much suffering they cause.

[Will Robinson]

Well that's not necessarily true because; and you seem to have the opposite opinion to this; how evil someone is is not measured by how much deaths they cause, but by how much suffering they cause.

Can you explain what you meant, in detail, because I'm pretty sure that I don't speak the same language as you.

[CUDA]

Loonie Lefties scare me more than radical Islamists - believe me! And for the USA, it is going to become more and more of an issue, as there are a TON of Loonie Lefties in the California - and sadly, they all have votes!

Self-righteous lefties are as much of a scourge on the face of the earth as any of the worst cases of any religion. don't think for a SECOND that these **** don't want to ruin life for everyone on the planet, because they DO!



Ya see it goes both ways, and it could be said that it's accurate about the fringes on each side, you personally have as much hate in you towards the right even more from what I read on this BB than any \"Fudie Christian\" here has to the left. so Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle

[Kilarin]

Ya see it goes both ways

Yep, I'm afraid of both the left and the right in America.

BUT, overall, even our fringes are less likely to bomb you than most of the Islamic world.

Just to demonstrate that fact, remember the cartoons making fun of Muhammad that caused Muslims all over the world to burn and kill?

Well, Iran's answer is to run a international cartoon contest about the Holocaust

They are running this contest Now,.

This is about as offensive as you can get, but do you see Jews shooting people, burning embassies, vandalizing cars? Hmmm, nope. They choose to protest without violence.

Most Muslims are decent people, but there is a very important cultural difference here.

[Bet51987]

Ya see it goes both ways

Yep, I'm afraid of both the left and the right in America.

BUT, overall, even our fringes are less likely to bomb you than most of the Islamic world.

Just to demonstrate that fact, remember the cartoons making fun of Muhammad that caused Muslims all over the world to burn and kill?

Well, Iran's answer is to run a international cartoon contest about the Holocaust

They are running this contest Now,.

This is about as offensive as you can get, but do you see Jews shooting people, burning embassies, vandalizing cars? Hmmm, nope. They choose to protest without violence.

Most Muslims are decent people, but there is a very important cultural difference here.

Present day Islam is a twisted religion run by twisted mullahs and to compare it to present day Christianity is like comparing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to the pope.

Bee