BioShock

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:10 pm

I just beat BioShock this afternoon. It is amazing. It blows the single player element of Half-Life 2 out of the water. I would recommend it to anyone who can run it.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:12 pm

sorry, I only have so much clean underwear.

way creepier than Doom3

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:14 pm

just played the demo, but I was a bit underwhelmed, to be honest. The demo felt much too linear for my tastes (couldn't get myself to like HalfLife for the same reasons), the old stupid being hearded through narrown corridors thing, with doors closing behind you, etc. Does this get better in the later levels?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:17 pm

aren't all games linear though? Even MassEffect is linear.

It's the nature of stories. It's just a matter of how convincing the illusion is. WoW is linear as well. ...very boring.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:05 am

Well, there's the storyline, then there are the levels... sandbox storylines are still quite difficult to achieve, but some games may give you more freedom in how you get from place to place in the storyline.

From what I recall of the Half-Life games, you pretty much had to take one path to get through an area... there were no alternate routes at all.

The fancier the game is, though, the harder it becomes to put some variation in it.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:03 am

BioShock is one of the most non-linear games I've ever played. You can go back to any level, you have to complete different things in different parts of an area, it's never \"go from A to B to C and next level\". You can rearrange your abilities, you can choose to either destroy security equipment or hack it and use it against people. You can choose to harvest little sisters or not harvest them (each has it's own benefits). You can use telepathy to move and fire stuff just like the gravity gun in HL2.

It's a truly amazing game; an experience to play.

This game is up there with Gears of War for \"Holy freakin' A, this is an awesome game!!\"

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:44 am

BioShock is physically linear. There are objectives and a story that inexorably lead you forward to the conclusion. The non-linearity mostly arises in gameplay, especially combat.

An enemy Splicer emerges from cover to shoot you with its machine gun. You shoot it with fire. It attempts to run to the nearest source of water to douse itself. Now, shoot electricity at the water to electrocute it. If the Splicer still isn't dead, it will attempt to run away to a health station to buy a med kit (notice their sense of self preservation!). However, if you hacked the health station ahead of time, you could ensure that it would receive an explosive booby trap instead, killing the Splicer.

I beat it and I know I passed up a ton of things to do.

386DX · Post by **386DX** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:54 pm

The demo was specifically designed to be linear because it was basically a training level. If you liked the game I would highly suggest Irrationals previous game System Shock 2 which is my all time favorite first person shooter.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:58 pm

386DX wrote:The demo was specifically designed to be linear because it was basically a training level. If you liked the game I would highly suggest Irrationals previous game System Shock 2 which is my all time favorite first person shooter.

Eh, it's not in HD so it must have sucked.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:15 pm

Good to hear about the non-linearity! Was really a bit disappointed from the linearity of the demo... - is it actually the first level of the game, btw?

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:47 pm

Pandora wrote:Good to hear about the non-linearity! Was really a bit disappointed from the linearity of the demo... - is it actually the first level of the game, btw?

It is, except:
- The Incinerate plasmid is in a different place.
- There isn't a major battle before going into the Medical Pavilion.
- Turrets and security cameras are introduced later.

[]V[]essenjah · Post by **[]V[]essenjah** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:35 pm

It's an FPS.... all FPS's are linear. As long as you travel in a pre-defined path, it is linear. Even Dark Messiah is linear and it is an RPG game. But you can also choose what you want to do with it. But it is linear all the same.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:44 am

not in Farcry ... most of the time there was complete freedom of movement. It was my favourite FPS ever.

It is, except:
- The Incinerate plasmid is in a different place.
- There isn't a major battle before going into the Medical Pavilion.
- Turrets and security cameras are introduced later.

I see. Good, that the turrets are introduced later. They led to quite a sharp difficulty increase in the demo.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:07 pm

Linearity as in plot. Farcry let you go anywhere on a given level, but you are still stuck getting to point x to move on.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:24 pm

I don't mind linearity of the plot at all. Most games with open plots are totally unfocussed and lack tight storytelling (i.e. Oblivion). What I hate is being herded through corridors ... the whole edge into room, wait for monsters to be triggered, shoot, then find the exit ... and then it starts over again thing. And don't get me started on the invisible barriers...

[]V[]essenjah · Post by **[]V[]essenjah** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:03 pm

Then again.... you have the classics like Dues Ex that were really open ended but not too open ended that were very compelling. KOTOR is another really great example of a classic open-ended game.

Oblivion focused too much on graphics and their half-crappy combat system rather than plot. In KOTOR you had a main plot line and a bunch of sub-plots to keep you interested. You had your side quests that you could go on and you could explore entire cities with these quests to build up your force powers and to help determine if you were light or dark and what companions you would receive. It wasn't as fun if you were dark because that is just the nature of the beast (you would kill most of your friends and acquire ones that you would most likely kill in the end to become the ultimate sith lord). Each character had personal sub-plots that you would earn along the way if you developed a relationship with that character.... even romances with some of the female characters would occure which would effect the main plot later down the road. (the Sith turn that character against you). You have all kinds of struggles and conflicts with your companions that drive the story forward, while you have your own personal struggles and conflicts. The plot never feels dry or stretched out (IE: Metal Gear Solid). It really depends, you can creatively make a really amazing game that doesn't have to be heavy on graphics.

Oblivion and most RPG games I have played recently aren't nearly as cool. No matter what, at the end, you are forced to become a good guy/hero. You can't remain evil through the game, there is no evil ending in Oblivion. Good RPG's have multiple endings. That is what makes them so much fun. You can be a little daring and take risks with the chance that they may or may not work. In KOTOR, I once betrayed my friends so that I could make the empire think that I was joining forces with them, so that I could free my companions. Oblivion, you really don't get any companions, the whole travel thing was screwed up because the added fast-travel, so the whole explore your country-side for fun element is gone. The leveling system was really terrible and your rewards weren't rewarding because the game would auto-adjust it no matter where you were in the game world. The character meshes were also awful, their face system was buggy and ugly. You are pretty much forced to play each plot out the same exact way every time. There is no choice between light or dark. If you finish the dark brotherhood quests, there really isn't much left to play through as a villain. You can't join the Mystic Dawn (even though there is a perfect setup for it), you can only become a hero in another sub-plot or become a hero in the main plot. Only a single ending to the game and it isn't that impressive from what I hear.

In Dues Ex, you could select to do whatever you wanted in the end. KOTOR didn't have as many endings to it, but you could select to be dark or to be light at the end. Two very open-ended games where you felt very compelled to play them over and over again.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:12 pm

Not to nit-pick, but I believe it was Deus, not Dues.

[]V[]essenjah · Post by **[]V[]essenjah** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:52 pm

Probably is.

It's a strange name. Never could seem to get it right.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:52 pm

Dues Ex(both of them) is a poor example- you could access all the endings from one point, all what went before having zero effect on any ending.

[]V[]essenjah · Post by **[]V[]essenjah** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:30 am

True, but at least it made an attempt at it and it was a great game.

TIGERassault · Post by **TIGERassault** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:52 pm

Pandora wrote:not in Farcry ... most of the time there was complete freedom of movement. It was my favourite FPS ever.

I'd nearly agree with you, but I found that it was actually a little linear, just that the paths were the size of levels! What I mean is that you can go around the level, but there'll always be one point you have to pass through to get to another section in the level.

(I don't know why critics said it was terrible for the Wii. I thought it was bloody brilliant!)

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:54 pm

I'm psyched about Bioshock for my (free) Xbox 360. However, I'm a bit put out by the widescreen debacle. I'm hoping they'll announce a widescreen patch for Xbox...

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:07 pm

The wide screen issue is a moot point and I'm amazed people are as \"outraged\" about it as they are. In this time of 4:3 and 16:9 televisions, many games have to do it to remain compatible. I don't understand what the problem is.

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:02 am

Kyouryuu wrote:The wide screen issue is a moot point and I'm amazed people are as "outraged" about it as they are. In this time of 4:3 and 16:9 televisions, many games have to do it to remain compatible. I don't understand what the problem is.

People find a lot of things to whine about nowadays. Just finished the game on my xbox 360. Definitely a great game and I had a lot of fun. No telling how many splicers I turned into a crisp with the fire plasmid.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:40 am

the issue with the widescreen is that bioshock doesn't give you more horizontal view than its 4:3 version.

You get more vertical in bioshock's 4:3 over the 16:9 modes.

so that unfortunately gives the impression that all the widescreen modes are nothing but cropped 4:3.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:23 am

Did you guys catch what was written on that bust of the founder when you first enter the tower? The banner hides it.

\"The Ultimate Cain\"

go check it out.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:17 pm

Which game do you guys think is better, System Shock 2, Deus X or BioShock?

What are the minimum system specs (the specs listed on the box are usually way too low) to run BioShock at a decent frame rate?

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:02 pm

Kyouryuu wrote:The wide screen issue is a moot point and I'm amazed people are as "outraged" about it as they are. In this time of 4:3 and 16:9 televisions, many games have to do it to remain compatible. I don't understand what the problem is.

I wouldn't say I'm outraged, but a little miffed that I can't see as much of the game on my widescreen as someone with a crappy old TV can see.

Strife · Post by **Strife** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:31 am

Wide Screen not working should be the last of peoples worries... If you Do Decide to buy it for PC... You can only install the game twice due to piracy protection. Downloading the game is possible... Installing it after download not so much. It killed my computer and I had to do a clean install this weekend. The fact that even if I do spend 50$ to purchase the game... then only install it 2 times before I get an error that says I need to contact securom is rediculous to me. Between butthole game companies putting limits on how many times I can install/play a game, and my cable company(comcast) limiting my bandwidth... Im about to freakin' snap!

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:41 pm

Holy #%@$! Thanks for the heads up. I don't think I'll be giving them my money for their piece of junk. I already got burned with Splinter Cell Double Agent, buggiest game I've bought recently and no support in sight from Ubi$oft.

Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Admiral Thrawn** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:06 pm

Well, even though I own a pretty nice pc which is more than capable of running it, I just decided to go the xbox 360 route. After looking at screenshots, it just wasn't enough difference between the 360 and PC for me. Besides, I wanted the game to have a bit of value after I beat it, and with 360 games, they are bit easier to trade.

I've already beat it, but right now, I have it out on loan. Great game! I don't regret it one bit.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:30 pm

Strife wrote:Wide Screen not working should be the last of peoples worries... If you Do Decide to buy it for PC... You can only install the game twice due to piracy protection. Downloading the game is possible... Installing it after download not so much. It killed my computer and I had to do a clean install this weekend. The fact that even if I do spend 50$ to purchase the game... then only install it 2 times before I get an error that says I need to contact securom is rediculous to me. Between butthole game companies putting limits on how many times I can install/play a game, and my cable company(comcast) limiting my bandwidth... Im about to freakin' snap!

They issued a patch a while back for the PC version that took care of a lot of issues and obviously you don't have it, because one thing the patch gives you is 5 installs on 5 machines (for a total of 25 installs).

I just bought it for my Xbox and am enjoying it so far.

Considering the reviews it's gotten, I don't see how anybody wouldn't at least consider the game. Although it is single player only...

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:49 pm

Admiral Thrawn wrote:I've already beat it, but right now, I have it out on loan. Great game! I don't regret it one bit.

I'm in the same boat. It's entertaining talking to the co-worker I loaned it to and learning how he made vastly different solutions to the same puzzles.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:58 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Holy #%@$! Thanks for the heads up. I don't think I'll be giving them my money for their piece of junk. I already got burned with Splinter Cell Double Agent, buggiest game I've bought recently and no support in sight from Ubi$oft.

I think I'm going to coin the word "FUDealot" just for you.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:13 pm

Wouldn't be the first time though. If that diatribe were about EA, it'd be right on the money.

(Which, by the way, is all they seem to care about. Well, with one qualifier: \"Quick\" money - if it requires maintaining customer loyalty they can't be bothered.)

Strife · Post by **Strife** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:20 am

Genghis wrote:
Strife wrote:Wide Screen not working should be the last of peoples worries... If you Do Decide to buy it for PC... You can only install the game twice due to piracy protection. Downloading the game is possible... Installing it after download not so much. It killed my computer and I had to do a clean install this weekend. The fact that even if I do spend 50$ to purchase the game... then only install it 2 times before I get an error that says I need to contact securom is rediculous to me. Between butthole game companies putting limits on how many times I can install/play a game, and my cable company(comcast) limiting my bandwidth... Im about to freakin' snap!
They issued a patch a while back for the PC version that took care of a lot of issues and obviously you don't have it, because one thing the patch gives you is 5 installs on 5 machines (for a total of 25 installs).

I just bought it for my Xbox and am enjoying it so far.

Considering the reviews it's gotten, I don't see how anybody wouldn't at least consider the game. Although it is single player only...

5 Installs is still retarded. I bought a game. Its my game now. I should be able to install it on as many machines but more importantly as many times on 1 machine as I want. 5 installs on 1 machine? What kind of BS is that? I will still end up buying the game because I'm so tempted to see the eye candy of it. But the fact that I have limits to how many times I can install are rediculous. I was more upset with the fact that I couldn't just hit up isohunt and "borrow" the game like everything else single player in the world. The patch you are talking about takes place on install correct?

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:28 pm

This game is over hyped and the reviews seem to be biased to the tune of \"OMG dis is der bestest game ever!\", when really its nothing different than any other FPS released before it, and the RPG element is completely nonexistent. The gameplay is very shallow, its obvious target being the 360 crowd, yet I think that people with consoles are yearning for a game that requires more than 2 brain cells to play. Yes, it is pretty, but its boring and not scary when you consider that dying has no consequence at all, you just pop up again in some chamber tube.

This is a funny review, but it captures exactly what I think about Bioshock pretty accurately:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... n-BioShock

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:27 pm

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:49 pm

Top Wop wrote:but its boring and not scary when you consider that dying has no consequence at all, you just pop up again in some chamber

I don't know if I ever thought BioShock was "Boo! Haunted House" scary. It is mostly uneasy and disturbing. But I disagree strongly with the "death has no consequence" concept. I know it is something GameSpot and others have harped on, but I like it.

My reasoning goes back to the Deathwalk in Prey, a very similar concept (and in some ways, even more forgiving than BioShock since you respawn in place). The fundamental benefit of this mechanic is that it keeps you in the world of the game. There is no game over, no booting back to the UI, no quick load, and no long load time. The world seamlessly resumes. To me, that is far more preferable compared to having to quick save and quick load around every corner. Many FPS games make the crucial error of using quick save and quick load as an excuse to really ramp up difficulty to frustrating levels, giving everyone the railgun or an equivalent one-hit-kill weapon. After the tenth reload, it's just not fun anymore.

BioShock is about the experience more than the challenge. You don't have to worry too much about some big nasty Cyberdemon around the corner - you can just stand and take in the world around you.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:58 pm

no, the vita-chambers without some sort of payment doesn't rub very well with the pure Capitalist theme of the setting.

The fact the vita-chambers work for free makes it seem, kinda socialist.

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