ATI All in Wonder..

[TOR_LordRaven]

Hey guys - in the process of pricing out parts for a HTPC..

I currently have what I think is a good starting point.. a Dell Optiplex 745

Dual-Core Pentium XE 915 @ 2.8ghz
4GB of DDR2 Ram @ 800mhz

The video is running a Intel GMA 3000 off the Q965/Q963 Chipset..

My question is this: The On-Board video seems weak, but will it push 1080p video? For instance, a BluRay player?

And if not, i will obviously need to get a Graphics card, but with only one PCIe slot in the system, i would like it to be a Combo.. like an All-in-wonder card. But it also has to be low-profile due to the size of the case.

Or - do standard PCI TV Tuner/Capture cards work very well or is the PCI bus too slow to keep up with 1080i / 720p ?

Thanks everyone!

[Thenior]

Integrated video (at least used to) relies heavily on the CPU for it's processing. A dual core isn't too powerful for that - not to mention a Pentium doesn't have some of the media encoding newer chips have.

I'd say try it, but it may be hard pressed to keep up. My dual core Pentium laptop couldn't play anything above 480p.

[Foil]

Throw an HTPC-oriented ATI in there, you can get 'em pretty cheap. I personally run my media / Blu-ray / DVR rig on an ATI 4350 (one with a passive heatsink for quietness) - the cpu load stays nice and low, and it runs 1080p60 with 5.1 audio through the card without breaking a sweat.

P.S. Don't get an All-In-Wonder, they're more trouble than they're worth. If you want to have DVR functionality for unencrypted QAM broadcasts you can get a PCI tuner; CableCard tuners will be USB. (I personally have one of each in my rig.)

[TOR_LordRaven]

Okay cool - good to know.

So the USB Cable Tuners work pretty well? USB 2.0 is fast enough to keep up?

[snoopy]

Okay cool - good to know.

So the USB Cable Tuners work pretty well? USB 2.0 is fast enough to keep up?

(I don't personally have one)

Generally ATSC/Cable cards do very little with the digital signal. The signal comes in as an MPEG-TS stream, and the card just tunes to it and passes it on. As such, the information is already compressed at ~20Mbit/sec. "High Speed USB" 2.0 is rated for 480. Note that "Full-speed USB" 2.0 is only 12.

[Foil]

Exactly. My CableCard tuner is internal, and just plugs into a USB 2.0 header on the motherboard. It has plenty of bandwidth.

[AceCombat]

i use a Happauge WinTV-HVR-1850, PCI-E ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner card and its nice....


i like to stay away from the USB Tuners, and stick to internal Cards. thats just my preference

[TOR_LordRaven]

I would as well.. go with internal cards over USB.. but this machine has only 1 PCIe slot, and that has to be used for the graphics card.

Would PCI be better than USB?

[Foil]

Depends on what kind of tuner you are getting.

If you want a tuner just for clear-QAM (which will be mostly your local channels), just get a PCI card like the ATI 650 or that Hauppage.

If you want a CableCard tuner (gives you all the channels you subscribe to with your cable provider), both internal and external will be USB.

(Note: Going to a CableCard tuner for DVR saves me about $22/month on my cable bill, between saving the DVR rental fee and the discount for using my own CableCard device.)

[AceCombat]

mine is a PCI-E but they do have a PCI version aswell


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815116033


this is the PCI Version of what i have. the only difference, mine has FM Radio also

[Aggressor Prime]

May I suggest one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... toreType=1

We use HDHomeRun on our home network and it works pretty well. Probably one of the best TV tuners you can get.

[Foil]

Eh, depends on what you want to spend. Right now you can get the ATI CableCard tuners (allowing you to get/record all your subscribed premium channels, as well as broadcast and ClearQAM) for $50-100. Getting an HDHomeRun CableCard tuner will cost you $150 or more, although I've heard very good things about them.

[Aggressor Prime]

I've used an ATI TV tuner, 2 in fact, the USB 600 and then the USB 650 which I replaced my USB 600 with in hopes of better results. I stopped using them for three reasons:
1. They overheated like crazy.
2. Their drivers were terrible. I can't tell you how many times the TV tuner crashed my system.
3. There are no drivers for Windows 7.

I don't know how well that reflects on their premium product, the Digital Cable Tuner, which is their sole product that works with CableCARD, but NewEgg has that listed for $199.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815294006
*Note: The Digital Cable Tuner also has no Windows 7 drivers. Driver support for ATI TV Tuners stopped with Windows Vista.

For same the price, if you need CableCARD, you can get a HDHomeRun Prime, which also supports CableCARD, in addition to acting as three tuners and working with Windows 7:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815345006

If you don't need CableCARD, $99.99 isn't too much to ask for a product that won't fail you:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815345007

[Foil]

...three reasons:
1. They overheated like crazy.

Really? I'm using multiple ATI tuners in an HTPC case in a cabinet, and have never had that problem. Where did you put yours?

2. Their drivers were terrible. I can't tell you how many times the TV tuner crashed my system.

I can tell you how many times it's crashed my machine: Zero. I've never had any trouble with the ATI drivers.

What media app are you using? I'm primarily using Win7 Media Center with a couple of plugins.
Did you install the ATI tuner drivers, or just the Catalyst package?

3. There are no drivers for Windows 7.
...
The Digital Cable Tuner also has no Windows 7 drivers.

Wow... Okay, here you're just plain incorrect.

I've been using both an ATI 650 and an ATI DCT in my Windows 7 rig for nearly two years now with zero problems. The 650 drivers work fine, and the DCT drivers are built-in to Windows 7 (including the firmware update via Windows Update).

------------

P.S. I just added a second ATI DCT for my birthday, cost me under $50 (you can find them cheap on eBay and other places).

P.P.S. Looks like Hauppage (a well-established name in the tuner business) now has a CableCard tuner retailing for ~$140 new. Ceton has some really nice high-end tuners as well.

[BUBBALOU]

Where is the 'like' button on this new featured board interface.

Foil needs some props on his reply! BZ

[Aggressor Prime]

1. The TV Tuners I used were external USB ones. I would think the PCI versions would have less problems with overheating since they allow for greater heat dissipation and can be cooled by the computer's fans. Then again, the 650 USB was pretty big, so I can't say for certain. Fans may be a must.
2. I've used both the Catalyst software and Windows Media Center. The Catalyst software is just terrible for viewing. WMC is much better. However, if I try unplugging my TV tuner, it will crash my machine. Also, I had problems with white video signals causing weird visual and audio artifacts.
3. There are no Windows 7 drivers on AMD's website for the external TV tuners (which includes the Digital Cable Tuner). The latest drivers they have are for Windows Vista and XP. There may be Windows 7 drivers on the disc, but then you will never get updated drivers for newer OS's. I know my 650 USB did not work with Windows 7 with any drivers I used, on the CD or on the AMD site. The PCI cards are the exception to this, as I did find drivers to those on AMD's site, but the OP expressed that he would need his TV tuner to either be part of the video card or connect via USB since he only has one slot.

As for price, if you can find AMD's Digital Cable Tuner on eBay for $50, I'm sure you can find HDHomeRun for a similar deal. I was just comparing retail to retail from the same store. Granted, my experiences are limited to the 600 USB and 650 USB. AMD's Digital Cable Tuner may be an exception. However, while AMD does say the product works with Windows 7, not having drivers on their site has me worried. Sure, you may have drivers on the disk that comes with it, but if you lose the disk or upgrade to Windows 8, you will be at a lost. Of course, if Microsoft continues support on their end as you have indicated, there may be no problems. I just prefer more control over what I buy.

[Ferno]

question for you lordraven.. you really want to go with the standalone vid, or are you willing to throw a new mobo/cpu combo in that uses integrated graphics (not the old style anymore, but on-cpu die)

[Foil]

There are no Windows 7 drivers on AMD's website for the external TV tuners (which includes the Digital Cable Tuner).
...while AMD does say the product works with Windows 7, not having drivers on their site has me worried.

Again:

...DCT drivers are built-in to Windows 7 (including the firmware update via Windows Update).

Plus, the Vista driversets for the 600/650 work perfectly for Win7.

------------

What I find interesting is that so many of these companies are moving toward external tuners. It's difficult to find internal tuners anymore, unless you're willing to take second-hand hardware (which is what I've mostly done). Has the HTPC market really dropped out in favor of laptop-based DVRs that much?

[TOR_LordRaven]

question for you lordraven.. you really want to go with the standalone vid, or are you willing to throw a new mobo/cpu combo in that uses integrated graphics (not the old style anymore, but on-cpu die)

Yeah, trying to re-purpose an existing machine. Money is also a factor, i don't have a lot of money to invest in this project but don't want it to be crummy either.

Best bang for the Buck.

The machine does not have to play blu-ray. I have an inexpensive player for that. Just want to turn it into a DVR.

Be able to record and playback 1080i video @ 60hz.

[TOR_LordRaven]

at first i wanted to be able to play BluRay movies, but thats not really as important as being able to turn this into a DVR..

[Capm]

Your problem with limited slots is most of your tv tuner cards are either Total Digital, or Analog/ClearQam. But not both.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6815706001

That will give you 4 total digital tuners (need the cable card). But if you still have analog channels, you'll need another card.

[Ferno]

Lordraven:

if you can spare about 35 bucks, grab yourself a Raspberry Pi for what you need to do.

It's about the size of a business card. It can do 1080p without a hitch. The only thing is you'd need to pair it with a USB tuner, and even then you'd probably end up spending less than what you would on a PCI card only.