What genocide is...

[Nightshade]

Encouraging genocide is a crime. The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide was signed in 1948 and fathered by Raphael Lemkin, a Jewish Polish lawyer who studied the genocide of the Armenians and invented the term in 1943 – “genos” meaning race or people and “cide” to kill. The Convention states that incitement “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group” is illegal.

So what're we watching today? What is being said and by whom?

"...All genocides follow eight stages. They are, in this order: classification, symbolization, dehumanization, organization, polarization, preparation, extermination and denial..."

Sound familiar to anyone? These phases have been put into motion in the past. What countr(y/ies) are currently implementing them? What should be done to discourage or punish them before they reach their genocidal goal?

Genocides, unlike hurricanes, are predictable, says world expert. And Iran is following the pattern.
Gregory Stanton, founder of Genocide Watch, says Iran has taken six of the eight steps on path to genocide...

http://www.timesofisrael.com/genocides- ... dium=email

[vision]

Let me know when they get to 8, Ok? Thanks buddy.

[callmeslick]

Let me know when they get to 8, Ok? Thanks buddy.

[Nightshade]

Let me know when they get to 8, Ok? Thanks buddy.

I guess you would have ignored the Holocaust as well.

[Top Gun]

Wow, Godwin'd by the fourth post. Impressive.

(Guess it technically doesn't count, since the topic is actually genocide, but still.)

[woodchip]

Wow, Godwin'd by the fourth post. Impressive.

(Guess it technically doesn't count, since the topic is actually genocide, but still.)

Wow, twice now you've used the Godwin'd term in two different posts, not that it has any meaning or is a particularly relevant denigration:

"Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form.[citation needed] The Reductio ad Hitlerum attempts to refute a view because it has been held by Hitler.[4] The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses, irrespective of whether it is appropriate or not"

I'd say TG your inability to intellectually discuss a topic shines bright here.

[vision]

So...

You wany to talk about how Israel reached stage 8 in Gaza years ago? Probably not, right?

Horrible justifications in 3...2...1...

[woodchip]

Um vision, do you at all remember when the Palestinians and Israel had a peace accord and who broke it?

[callmeslick]

7 minutes, vision.

[Nightshade]

So...

You wany to talk about how Israel reached stage 8 in Gaza years ago? Probably not, right?

Horrible justifications in 3...2...1...

Your antisemitism is showing.

[callmeslick]

So...

You wany to talk about how Israel reached stage 8 in Gaza years ago? Probably not, right?

Horrible justifications in 3...2...1...

Your antisemitism is showing.

citing facts is 'antisemitism'? Yeesh.
Oh, and both sides of that battle are Semites.

[woodchip]

So...

You wany to talk about how Israel reached stage 8 in Gaza years ago? Probably not, right?

Horrible justifications in 3...2...1...

Your antisemitism is showing.

citing facts is 'antisemitism'? Yeesh.

What facts are you quoting. You're beginning to sound like vision

[callmeslick]

I was referring to vision's pointing out that the Israelis got to step 8 in Gaza already. Facts aplenty, and frankly facts aplenty that they have approached that on the West Bank for years. Now, I put little stock in anybody's '8 steps to genocide' roadmap, and I put even less stock in folks whining about a THREAT that MIGHT face dear old Israel, when those same folks likely didn't say squat about Sudan,Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Kosovo,Serbia,etc, etc.

so, Woody, I wasn't making a statement of fact in my reply, I was questioning the use of the term 'antisemitism'.

[Top Gun]

I'd say TG your inability to intellectually discuss a topic shines bright here.

Funny, because Godwin's Law exists to inform an individual when intellectual discussion on a topic has ended. Not that there was much to begin with.

[vision]

Your antisemitism is showing.

1. If you are going to outline some qualifiers for genocide, then be prepared to apply them to everyone -- not just who "might" commit genocide, but who already meet the qualifications.

2. I extend these same qualifiers to everyone, including the United States. It is my personal opinion that there is not enough national and international pressure to extradite Bush and Blair to Hague for crimes committed against the citizens of Iraq. I guess that makes me... anti-Anglo?

3. I don't want anything bad to happen to the Jews. I want both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to break down ethno-religious, geo-political barriers and work harder towards a solution that increases the well-being of everyone in the region.

You, on the other hand, only express the malice-intended separatism you accuse Iran of having. You live perpetually at stage 6. Want to keep demonizing Muslims? You're part of the problem, not the solution.

[Nightshade]

I was referring to vision's pointing out that the Israelis got to step 8 in Gaza already.

If Israel truly wanted to wipe out muslim arabs under its control and within the territory it controls it would have been done decades ago. What genocidal maniacs would... 1) warn arab residents of pinpointed action against militants well ahead of time 2) provide immediate medical assistance to muslim arabs injured by military action by either terrorists or by collateral damage by Israeli action 3) provide monetary assistance to the Palestinian government in the West Bank for everything from security and training to infrastructure repair and maintenance.

Facts aplenty, and frankly facts aplenty that they have approached that on the West Bank for years

'Facts' indeed.

Now, I put little stock in anybody's '8 steps to genocide' roadmap, and I put even less stock in folks whining about a THREAT that MIGHT face dear old Israel, when those same folks likely didn't say squat about Sudan,Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Kosovo,Serbia,etc, etc.

Yes, it's interesting that the Obama administration showed no interest in helping people in Darfur, the green revolution in Iran nor Clinton in Serbia and so on.

[Nightshade]

So...

You wany to talk about how Israel reached stage 8 in Gaza years ago? Probably not, right?

Horrible justifications in 3...2...1...

It's a common narrative in leftist circles...leftist ANTISEMITIC circles that the Israelis are genocidal and supremacist.

I wonder where you keep your copy of the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion.'

[callmeslick]

Now, I put little stock in anybody's '8 steps to genocide' roadmap, and I put even less stock in folks whining about a THREAT that MIGHT face dear old Israel, when those same folks likely didn't say squat about Sudan,Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Kosovo,Serbia,etc, etc.

Yes, it's interesting that the Obama administration showed no interest in helping people in Darfur, the green revolution in Iran nor Clinton in Serbia and so on.

your grasp of recent history is breathtaking........
But, life is so simple when it's Obama's fault, or that of 'leftists', now, isn't it?

[Nightshade]

Now, I put little stock in anybody's '8 steps to genocide' roadmap, and I put even less stock in folks whining about a THREAT that MIGHT face dear old Israel, when those same folks likely didn't say squat about Sudan,Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Kosovo,Serbia,etc, etc.

Yes, it's interesting that the Obama administration showed no interest in helping people in Darfur, the green revolution in Iran nor Clinton in Serbia and so on.

your grasp of recent history is breathtaking........
But, life is so simple when it's Obama's fault, or that of 'leftists', now, isn't it?

Not to mention the Coptic Christians being slaughtered and eradicated from Egypt and Sudan. It seems Obama's administration has little interest in their plight.

[callmeslick]

see? And what, exactly, do you know of behind-the-scenes work being done by the State Department , or not being done, that would give your claim anything past partisan bitterness?

I, for one, cannot wait to read another 4 years of rants after Obama wins in November. When do you plan on turning your focus onto the soon-to-be first Woman President, Hillary Clinton?

[CUDA]

personally I think that Obama will win, and IMHO it doesn't matter, the path that this country is on is irreversible. our economy cannot sustain the current spending and entitlements that we have. and NEITHER part is willing to work to correct it. the Dem's say it's the Rep's fault for stonewalling, but if Romney wins it will be exactly the same from the other side. Nothing will get done. our Economy will collapse and when it does it will take the rest of the world with it. as the worlds biggest consumer China and everyone will collapse with us because of our wreck-less ways. we are printing money at such a rate that it will soon take wheel barrels full of it just to buy a loaf of bread the dollar will be worthless.
Then there is the whole issue in the middle east exploding, and us turning our backs in Israel. I don't even know where to start.

[vision]

I wonder where you keep your copy of the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion.'

Ok you caught me. I keep it on the top shelf between my copies of "Ecce Homo" and "Das Judenthum in der Musik." For discovering my secret, I present to you a prize in the form of a new avatar:

[Kilarin]

Godwin's Law exists to inform an individual when intellectual discussion on a topic has ended

Godwin's law is a GOOD law, in general. But there have to be some exceptions to every law.

Godwin's law applies when the Hitler or Nazi's are brought into a conversation that had nothing to do with Hitler or Nazi's, just to demonize the other side and their point of view. In that case, Godwin's law is a good measure of when the conversation has disintegrated to the point of insults instead of discussion.

But Godwin's law doesn't apply in any discussion where Hitler and/or the Nazi's are actually ON topic. And in any discussion of genocide, it would be a pretty incomplete and handicapped discussion if you were not allowed to mention Hitler, Nazis, and the holocaust.

I suspect that Godwin's law is starting to become outdated. Hitler and the Nazi's are being replaced as the "most evil things in the world". We are moving from Hitler/Nazi's to Osama bin Laden/Terrorists. Sometime in the not to distant future we may have to rephrase Godwin's law to state that a conversation is over as soon as one side compares the other side to Osama/Terrorists.

[callmeslick]

what's the body count,roughly for Islamic terrorists? Call me back when the total approaches, say, 3 million or so.

[Kilarin]

what's the body count,roughly for Islamic terrorists? Call me back when the total approaches, say, 3 million or so

Logic and reason doesn't have much to do with what people are afraid of.

[callmeslick]

fair enough point. Amply demonstrated herein.

[Top Gun]

But Godwin's law doesn't apply in any discussion where Hitler and/or the Nazi's are actually ON topic. And in any discussion of genocide, it would be a pretty incomplete and handicapped discussion if you were not allowed to mention Hitler, Nazis, and the holocaust.

Yeah, I know, which is why I added that caveat there. I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek.

[Kilarin]

But Godwin's law doesn't apply in any discussion where Hitler and/or the Nazi's are actually ON topic. And in any discussion of genocide, it would be a pretty incomplete and handicapped discussion if you were not allowed to mention Hitler, Nazis, and the holocaust.

Yeah, I know, which is why I added that caveat there. I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek.

You're right, you did. Somehow in my trying to catch up on the topic I missed your caveat. Sorry about that!

[woodchip]

I was referring to vision's pointing out that the Israelis got to step 8 in Gaza already. Facts aplenty, and frankly facts aplenty that they have approached that on the West Bank for years. Now, I put little stock in anybody's '8 steps to genocide' roadmap, and I put even less stock in folks whining about a THREAT that MIGHT face dear old Israel, when those same folks likely didn't say squat about Sudan,Rwanda, Ivory Coast, Kosovo,Serbia,etc, etc.

so, Woody, I wasn't making a statement of fact in my reply, I was questioning the use of the term 'antisemitism'.

Thanks for the clarification. Since you are new here you probably missed the discussions we had here about Rwanda and Serbia. Of course back then those two areas were front and center on the news. We talk now about Israel as it is front and center on the news. It would seem the radicals are now going to take control of the middle east and Iran seems hell bent for a nuke. I'm afraid any attack on Iran will be very bloody, both for Iran and Israel and also to our fleet parked near Hormuz. Lets hope at that point we can all forget about being a liberal or a conservative and show a united front. I won't hold my breath though, waiting to see that happen.

[woodchip]

see? And what, exactly, do you know of behind-the-scenes work being done by the State Department , or not being done, that would give your claim anything past partisan bitterness?

No but we can see the results of their attempts at foreign policy and worse their inept explanations and apologetic replies. A former CIA type explained it this way. If you are a Muslim male in the middle east, the very last thing you will ever do is apologize for something as it make you look weak. Women apologize, men don't. With Obama and Hillary both apologizing for the bad video only made our country look weak in the eyes of the terrorist. The last thing you want to do is appear weak to them.

I, for one, cannot wait to read another 4 years of rants after Obama wins in November. When do you plan on turning your focus onto the soon-to-be first Woman President, Hillary Clinton?

I'm looking forward to how the ass kissing Obama support team main stream media starts to actually do their job when Romney is elected. As to Hillary, when Monica Lewinsky comes out with her tell all book, everyone will realize what a sad person she is for not getting a divorce. If she can't handle her own husband, how the hell can she handle the country.

[callmeslick]

Woody, on another forum(in which a year ago I predicted Obama would win by 7% and 70 electoral votes), I offered the board members a wager. $25, given to Fisher House(I assume, as a vet, you know of them) in the online name of the winner. Anyone who wanted to bet the GOP field against Obama could bet me. I got exactly one taker, from a host of rightwing nimrods. I would gladly offer the same wager here, but it doesn't seem sporting, at this point.

[woodchip]

Woody, on another forum(in which a year ago I predicted Obama would win by 7% and 70 electoral votes), I offered the board members a wager. $25, given to Fisher House(I assume, as a vet, you know of them) in the online name of the winner. Anyone who wanted to bet the GOP field against Obama could bet me. I got exactly one taker, from a host of rightwing nimrods. I would gladly offer the same wager here, but it doesn't seem sporting, at this point.

I'll take your bet. Either way I can't lose

[callmeslick]

yer on.

[vision]

Do you see what you are doing here?

If you are a Muslim male in the middle east, the very last thing you will ever do is apologize...

...apologizing for the bad video only made our country look weak in the eyes of the terrorist.

First you say Muslim male, then you equate that with terrorist. It is taken for granted that an Islamic terrorist already hates the West with a burning passion. And why would Muslim males in the Middle East think differently than Muslim males anywhere else? Let us also keep in mind not all terrorists are Islamic, nor from the Middle East. I'm not trying to pick on you, but when I see writing like this I wonder if it's laziness or if you really have conflated different ideas.

As to Hillary, when Monica Lewinsky comes out with her tell all book, everyone will realize what a sad person she is for not getting a divorce. If she can't handle her own husband, how the hell can she handle the country.

Interesting. So, how should she have "handled" her husband? I'm going to make an assumption that the nature and details of the Clinton's marriage are complex and intricate, and there is no easy answer as to how they (not her) should have handled their marital problems. But they did handle it, and it is their problem, not the country's. Besides, it takes a lot of strength to forgive. Divorce can be spun an "running away" and staying with someone who cheated can be spun as "spineless," so either way she loses for a situation she had nothing to do with. Nice, huh?

[callmeslick]

give me 5-1 odds or thereabouts, and I'll put up a wager on Clinton in 2016.

[Foil]

...a wager. $25, given to Fisher House(I assume, as a vet, you know of them) in the online name of the winner. Anyone who wanted to bet the GOP field against Obama could bet me.

I'll take your bet. Either way I can't lose

yer on.

We have an official wager! After November's election, folks here will hold you guys to this.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Interesting. So, how should she have "handled" her husband? I'm going to make an assumption that the nature and details of the Clinton's marriage are complex and intricate, and there is no easy answer as to how they (not her) should have handled their marital problems. But they did handle it, and it is their problem, not the country's. Besides, it takes a lot of strength to forgive. Divorce can be spun an "running away" and staying with someone who cheated can be spun as "spineless," so either way she loses for a situation she had nothing to do with. Nice, huh?

Frankly I don't think any normal person could conceive of why Bill and Hillary stayed together, but if it spoke well of either of them I would be shocked. Their's is pretty obviously a political marriage that has worked out to the relative advantage for both parties involved, and if they can spin the whole thing to be attractive to everyday folks (forgiveness, etc), then that's just what they've been doing their whole lives. I actually met a guy the other day who had spoken with a member of the secret service at a function where President Bush Jr. was in attendance. He had asked him which President he preferred to work for, having served for both. The answer was that he didn't like working for Bill, because he would send them to various young ladies at evens with, "the President would like to see you (in private)". I've heard about that in a video about the Clintons, but it was interesting to have it confirmed by someone in-person. I don't always believe what people tell me, but I don't have any reason to doubt he was telling the truth either. I suspect that it's a negative reflection on Hilary that she stayed with him for what could only be political reasons. I think either "spinelessness" or "strength" are just projections of a half-way reasonable (or romantic) individual, on your part.

[Tunnelcat]

Um vision, do you at all remember when the Palestinians and Israel had a peace accord and who broke it?

They both broke it. No one on either side liked it either. But if you want to know, the first spark of the collapse was in February 1994, when an Israeli settler, Baruch Goldstein, killed twenty-nine Palestinians at a West Bank mosque in Hebron. So technically, the Israelis started it.

http://www.answers.com/topic/oslo-accords

Read the last 2 paragraphs if you're short on time.