Transgender

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:02 am

Seems a women was booted from a local exercise club because some transgender guy was using the women's shower and locker room and the woman complained about it. Now the question for all of you is, if a guy says he is a transgender, should he be allowed to use the women's facilities just on his say so? Should he be able to use the shower if young girls are showering also?
Have at it crew.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:09 am

Proper plumbing required.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:20 am

kind of agree with Will, actually. This whole transgender thing will be the next big sexual orientation issue, and it presents problems around physical changes for this sort of situation. If he/she has gone through the process completely, no one should know the difference, nor care. Otherwise, if the individual is at the Bruce Jenner stage, dressing and acting, but not surgically altered, no way should they be around little kids, or even adult women, because as indicated, one is going on their word, despite outward physical traits.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:15 pm

Sure. let him in, then when he molests or Rapes someone we can blame the PC Morons

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:49 pm

not going to happen if a true transgender.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:13 pm

woodchip wrote:...transgender guy...

Trans-gender woman. Not a man. This is important to understand.

Will Robinson wrote:Proper plumbing required.

The parts don't make you a man or woman. This is one of those realities our civilization is just now discovering and, unfortunately, it will probably take at least a generation before this is commonly accepted. I wish it were sooner.

callmeslick wrote:Otherwise, if the individual is at the Bruce Jenner stage, dressing and acting, but not surgically altered, no way should they be around little kids, or even adult women, because as indicated, one is going on their word, despite outward physical traits.

Seriously slick, how can you determine anyone's sexuality except for "on their word?" If you say "I am attracted to women and not men" how would I or anyone else verify that? Should everyone be require to get a fMRI scan to see what sexually arouses them, then have that printed on their driver's license?

CUDA wrote:Sure. let him in, then when he molests or Rapes someone we can blame the PC Morons

Please, provide some examples where a woman with a penis raped another woman. Can you find even one? I can't, but even if you did, could you prove that a woman is in the same danger from a trans-woman in a locker room as from a man waiting to rape her in the parking lot of the gym?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:26 pm

Vision, are you saying this is a person born as female who has had the penis crafted on her-now-his body and has then stepped in the shower but is claiming to be in the woman's shower as a female so the penis doesn't count?!? All the little girls should just think of it as a low hanging goiter or something?

If so I'm thinking my rule still works...plumbing must match the other users of the shower. If I have that wrong then please clarify what was what at what point...

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:47 pm

OMG. Are we going to have the gender vs. sex argument again…

I don’t give a damn what “gender” you think you are, or how many times you have changed your “gender”…sex is what should decide which bathroom you use.

I know for a fact that one can't actually change their sex, but you should at least have the equipment, to make a good argument.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:12 pm

vision wrote:
woodchip wrote:...transgender guy...
Trans-gender woman. Not a man. This is important to understand.

The "Guy" was claiming to be a transgender. The point of discussion is how do you determine if the "guy" is a real transgender or just a voyeur?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:53 pm

well, I was going to say something along the lines of "the transgender man is now a woman, so why should it matter?", but vision already beat me to it.

I know for a fact that one can't actually change their sex, but you should at least have the equipment, to make a good argument.

What would your response be spidey, if we were talking about she-males?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:47 pm

I don’t know how that question relates to the subject.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:03 pm

Will Robinson wrote:Vision, are you saying this is a person born as female who has had the penis crafted on her-now-his body and has then stepped in the shower but is claiming to be in the woman's shower as a female so the penis doesn't count?!? All the little girls should just think of it as a low hanging goiter or something?

Your sentence doesn't make any sense (I'm not surprised). Nowhere does any report say this woman had woman-to-man gender reassignment, not that it would make a difference. It does not matter if you have a penis, vagina, both, or neither. And what "little girls" are going in the locker-room without adult supervision? (As is required by Planet Fitness, no one under 14 shall be unattended.) Seems like a perfect opportunity to explain to a little girl that some girls are born with boy parts and vice-verse.

Will Robinson wrote:If so I'm thinking my rule still works...plumbing must match the other users of the shower. If I have that wrong then please clarify what was what at what point...

Again, why should the plumbing matter? So, would you be more comfortable in a locker room with a gay man who is checking out your junk who might even make a pass at you or a trans-man who is interested in women? Please explain why, I would love to hear it.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:24 pm

I don't care if a gay man is in the locker room with me. Gay men are everywhere with me and they rarely make a pass because they tend to recognize I'm straight after talking to me.
Just like there are lesbians in girls locker rooms and I don't try to keep them or my daughters out of those places.

I care if all a guy has to do is claim to be a woman so he can go in the woman's shower.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:35 pm

Will Robinson wrote: I care if all a guy has to do is claim to be a woman so he can go in the woman's shower.

as a father of one female child, and grandfather to two more, I have to take this tack myself. Enough sickos out there that I don't
want that option available. Physical gender evidence should be the issue.

Now, how you'd ever manage to monitor it, across most, let alone ALL bathrooms or locker rooms is beyond me.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:46 pm

Ya know…if people who are transgender would just understand that not everyone is comfortable with it, they could do something like make arrangements to shower in private, or wait till they get home.

A little consideration goes a long way.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:58 pm

When I think about it, the bathroom doesn’t really present an issue for me, but the shower is a different story.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:22 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I care if all a guy has to do is claim to be a woman so he can go in the woman's shower.

Sure, but you do realize that by the time a trans-person is using a cis locker room they are already transitioning, and it in most cases it is pretty obvious they are not just some weirdo creep. One of the problems is that people haven't had enough exposure to trans-persons to see there is nothing to worry about, and the reason they haven't been exposed has everything to do with prejudice.

Spidey wrote:Ya know…if people who are transgender would just understand that not everyone is comfortable with it...

Are you ★■◆●ing kidding? I can't tell if you are joking. Trans-persons are EXTREMELY aware that not everyone is comfortable with it. People used to be uncomfortable with Negroes using the same bathroom too.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:01 pm

Not the same thing, but I’m sure that concept is lost on you.

You talk about Will being predictable…HA!

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:48 pm

woodchip wrote:
vision wrote:
woodchip wrote:...transgender guy...
Trans-gender woman. Not a man. This is important to understand.
The "Guy" was claiming to be a transgender. The point of discussion is how do you determine if the "guy" is a real transgender or just a voyeur?

Ummm, if the guy has gone through the actual physical sex transformation, how would you even know that "she" used to be a "he" in the shower? That person has to be naked to take that shower, so everything is visible, and the surgery for that transformtion is very realistic. As for the other way, a woman transforming into a man, that's a little more difficult because surgeons haven't gotten good at creating a realistic phallus yet, so most trans men don't have the surgery down there and usually hide that area from public view.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:52 pm

Spidey wrote:Not the same thing, but I’m sure that concept is lost on you.

Try me. Please explain how they are different.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:18 pm

Figure it out for yourself.

I actually know black people who don’t like being compared to every gay/sexual...etc issue under the sun.

They understand the difference.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:14 pm

Spidey wrote:I don’t know how that question relates to the subject.

well it is part of how we define male/female roles, and gender in general; since they have the equipment of both.

--------

Vision; Spidey.

In this case, I think you are both right but on different levels.

In spidey's case, it's about race discrimination, but in vision's case, it's about gender (or lack thereof) discrimination. It's one of those same, yet different issues.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:26 am

Spidey wrote:Figure it out for yourself.

I actually know black people who don’t like being compared to every gay/sexual...etc issue under the sun.

They understand the difference.

Oh cool, you speak for all black people then? Neat! You and Will are like heroes of African-American culture. How blessed that we have your wisdom here. Now if people who are black would just understand that not everyone is comfortable with them using public spaces, they could do something like make arrangements to not do it around whites.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:08 am

Vision is clearly confusing transgender with hermaphrodite.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:33 am

CUDA wrote:Vision is clearly confusing transgender with hermaphrodite.

He is confused about a lot of things.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:36 am

vision wrote:
Spidey wrote:Figure it out for yourself.

I actually know black people who don’t like being compared to every gay/sexual...etc issue under the sun.

They understand the difference.
Oh cool, you speak for all black people then? Neat! You and Will are like heroes of African-American culture. How blessed that we have your wisdom here. Now if people who are black would just understand that not everyone is comfortable with them using public spaces, they could do something like make arrangements to not do it around whites.

Oh cool and you speak for all transgenders that you know the difference between real and lurkers?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:05 am

No, I don’t think this is an issue of discrimination, I think this is an issue about getting something right. I would never want to see any person discriminated against because of their gender, sex, race or otherwise, but there is still the bigger picture to consider.

If you have a penis, you shouldn’t be in the women’s shower, I don’t know, you can call me anything you want…but that is the way I feel. But I also feel that these people should also be able to take a shower, just like everyone else, just not with the rest of the women.

It’s not like you have the right to a shower with other people, and if they object, they also have rights.

And I never said I speak for all black people, hell I never even said I speak for even one black person.

I simply relayed something I have heard “some” of them say.

……..

Ok Ferno, I needed you to clarify, because I didn’t know if you were talking about people who are born with both parts or “ladyboys” who are basically gay men, who want to be pretty like women.

I think if a business has a client who has special needs, a private shower is all that is needed. No big deal.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:06 am

Spidey wrote:If you have a penis, you shouldn’t be in the women’s shower, I don’t know, you can call me anything you want…but that is the way I feel.

Thank you for being honest. The resistance to trans-gender persons is purely about feelings. Every complaint I have ever seen about trans-persons can be reduced to immaturity about sexuality.

Spidey wrote:It’s not like you have the right to a shower with other people, and if they object, they also have rights.

Remember, we are talking about a semi-public shower. Everyone has the rights laid out by the owner of the shower, in this case, Planet Fitness. Not mature enough to deal with trans-persons? Membership revoked.

Spidey wrote:I think if a business has a client who has special needs, a private shower is all that is needed. No big deal.

That statement is insensitive. Trans-persons have special needs only as far as they are discriminated against.

For the rest of you, claiming that a trans-woman with a penis might rape a woman is unsubstantiated. I have yet to find a single instance of it happening anywhere, which of course puts it in the same risk category as having a piano fall on your head while walking down the street. Trans-persons are almost always the victim of rape, not the perpetrator.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:13 am

Umm…had to get your little dig in huh.

If I’m not mistaken the only one that was discriminated against was the woman that got her membership terminated.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:57 pm

vision wrote:For the rest of you, claiming that a trans-woman with a penis might rape a woman is unsubstantiated.

First, no where is it stated "Transgender woman" thats only in your miss-interpretation of the situation. A woman with a penis is a hermaphrodite. and I'm sorry you don't know sarcasm when you see it or even with it's STRONGLY implied with Multiple

and you don't understand that ANYONE can just "CLAIM" to be transgender and therefore gain access to a woman's bathroom. Hello Perverts. not to mention they fact that you have no clue what Transgender really is, and you continue to insist that it's a woman. YOU'RE WRONG.

Medical definition wrote:transgender
adj trans·gen·der \tran(t)s-ˈjen-dər\
Definition of TRANSGENDER

: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or a transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

I'm "ASSUMING" you know that a Transsexual and a Transvestite are typically Male don't you?

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:04 pm

Wow CUDA you have a lot to learn about sexuality. Here, let me explain a few things to you.

CUDA wrote:First, no where is it stated "Transgender woman" thats only in your miss-interpretation of the situation.

Nope. If you are a Trans-person using a woman's locker room because that's how you self-identify then you are a trans-woman by definition. There is no area open to interpretation.

CUDA wrote:A woman with a penis is a hermaphrodite.

Wrong again. Jesus, you could have just looked in a dictionary for this one. A Hermaphrodite refers specifically organisms that have both male and female sex organs (or ambiguous organs). A Trans-person has only one set of sex organs, those opposite of their identity gender. Human hermaphroditism is extremely rare.

CUDA wrote:you don't understand that ANYONE can just "CLAIM" to be transgender and therefore gain access to a woman's bathroom.

Sure anyone can claim false transgenderism, but does anyone actually do it? Can you give me some stats on the prevalence of bathroom use by persons lying about their orientation for perverted reasons? If you claim to orient as a man, how can I verify it?

CUDA wrote:...not to mention they fact that you have no clue what Transgender really is, and you continue to insist that it's a woman.

Actually, it is you who don't understand transgenderism, as shown above. Possession of a penis does not make you a man. Time to get with the facts. Sexuality has many components and the total sum creates a person's identity, not just one of the parts.

CUDA wrote:I'm "ASSUMING" you know that a Transsexual and a Transvestite are typically Male don't you?

Holy ★■◆●, this isn't the Rocky Horror Picture Show we are talking about. This isn't guys dressing in drag. Transgenders are not people dressing up for a thrill. They are trying to express their identity as best they can given what they have to work with. Have you ever had a sincere conversation with a trans-person? Being trans not a titillating sexual adventure. It's the opposite.

You have conflated and misunderstood a whole bunch of terms. Time to do some research so you don't look stupid again, eh?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:36 pm

Spidey wrote:I think if a business has a client who has special needs, a private shower is all that is needed. No big deal.

simple, cost-efficient and effective. I agree completely.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:44 am

So did all of the nay-sayers miss the fact that the locker room in question has private shower stalls? No one's going to be seeing anything regardless of one's preference or identity, so why the hell should it even be an issue?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:32 pm

So that…if true…raises the question of how the woman who was booted, could know the “lady” had a weewee, or even had the grounds to file a complaint.

Something reeks.

vision · Post by **vision** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:45 pm

Spidey wrote:Something reeks.

I used to have a Planet Fitness membership. Every gym I went to in the branch had private shower stalls.

Depending on where they are in transition, an unassigned trans-woman is fairly easy to spot. This complaining woman let her ignorance and insensitivity get the best of her and her membership dully revoked. It was an appropriate move by Planet Fitness and there shouldn't be any controversy or defense over this person's ignorance.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:52 pm

So why are we talking about shower stalls?

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:20 pm

Because half the people in there were whining that people with a penis shouldn't walk around a women's locker room, which should become completely moot when you realize that no one would be seeing said organ anyway.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:37 pm

Spidey wrote:So that…if true…raises the question of how the woman who was booted, could know the “lady” had a weewee, or even had the grounds to file a complaint.

Something reeks.

Answer: she followed what she thought was a "weird looking woman", looked inside the stall, saw the dong and went 'awwaaaaaah'

educated guess of course, but it fits.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:50 pm

Or, while the stalls may be private, perhaps the locker room where one undresses may be a general public area.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Planet+ ... B675%3B833

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:26 pm

woodchip wrote:Or, while the stalls may be private, perhaps the locker room where one undresses may be a general public area.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Planet+ ... B675%3B833

would it be such a far-fetched idea that one might... wear a towel into the stalls?