Computer Suddenly Shut Down

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:01 pm

HELP

I was playing doom when all the sudden everything shuts off: fans, HD, whatever.

I hit the restart button and nothing. Motherboard has a happy green light, but the "on" switch does nothing.

Currrently I am unplugging and waiting. 2 minute time outs have not helped.

Computer running well for several weeeks.

??????????????????

Is this what they call "not posting?"

Ned the NuB

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:13 pm

You OCing anything?

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:15 pm

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:22 pm

When u press the power button it does absolutly nothing?
no fans spin up or anything?

If so it sounds like its the PSU or the MB
If anything else was at fault I think it would still give power to the fans and the HDDs

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:25 pm

nothing whatsoever

but there is a green light on the Mobo

I have a volt meter. How do power supplies work? Does the motherboard swith them on?

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:31 pm

Unplug all cards cept video and ram, try to boot it.

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:34 pm

like un plug CD and DVD?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:34 pm

Ya, when u hit the power button the signal to make the PSU kick on goes through the MB

btw what kinda of system is it?
home built? oem?
whats the specs?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:37 pm

Ned wrote:like un plug CD and DVD?

ya HDDs/CD, sound/nic cards and everything

all the system needs on the MB to boot is vid/ram/cpu/psu

This rules out anything else stopping the system from booting so u can narrow down what is causing the problem

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:38 pm

Yeah, start pulling cards. Might try pulling and swapping the RAM also, but that would give an error beep if something was wrong with it. Other then that, check for a bad PSU or a stuck reset switch (I've seen it happen).

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:41 pm

I pulled off the power cables to the following:

DVD
CD
floppy
HD
* nothing

I also pulled the power cable of the Vid card
* nothing

The only card on the MoBo is video GeForce 6800

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:42 pm

no no dont pull the power cable off the video card,, that is VERY important

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:43 pm

Yeah... Dont unplug the video power. heh

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:48 pm

I kind of hope it is the POwer supply

A VERY cheap POwmax, case w/ PS $26

I put the VOM meter on the power connector for the HD and hit the reset switch, nothing

I think maybe the power supply has low power, but not high. Isnt it like MB 5v , peripherals 12v?????

Help

And I gave away an old working PS yesterday! How to check this shizzle?

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 pm

power reconnected to video and or HD doesn't help

Dumb question: If a CPU died, would I still get some fan noise when trying to power up?

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 pm

Ned wrote:Dumb question: If a CPU died, would I still get some fan noise when trying to power up?

yeah eveyrthing would still get power but it wouldnt get past the post (power on self test)

to me it sounds like the PSU went up while u were playing

do u have another one u can replace it with to test the MB?

whats the specs on the rest of system? psu/MB brand/rating and all

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:55 pm

Power supply is 400W and the system is home built. It was blowing decently warm air when poof, lights out.

I dont think any of the components draw that much (combined)

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:56 pm

Very close to this system

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3051

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:10 pm

in that list u have listed a powmax case with a 400w PSU
so im guessing its a 400w powmax PSU
if thats the case this is ur PSU

and no offence but that thing isnt much, so now im pretty sure its the PSU that died

that 6800 probably sucked it dry

try and find another PSU to test the rest of the system

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:22 pm

Im testing the supply now, yes it is way cheap

So the power plugs coming off the supply should always be live, right? Or do they need the MoBo?

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:42 pm

You'll need the ATX connector plugged into the motherboard. Stick the ground lead into one of the ground pins in a molex connector (ie: black lead -> black wire). Then start touching pins through the top of the ATX connector. DO NOT UNPLUG THIS CONNECTOR! Just stick it in through the top while its plugged in until you get a connection.

At any rate, I think you fried your power supply dude.

Fortron 400W - $65.50

or

Same as above, only the fan has a blue LED - $69.50

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:45 pm

I just tested the 20 pin connector disconnected from the MoBo

only 2 live connections:
"power supply on"
"5 volt standby"

http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6255-1041735-2.html

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:11 pm

now, read what MD posted.

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:40 pm

Was busy fooling around, I read it.

Plugged in or not plugged in, no voltages over 5v

I think the high end died

Ill get a new one tomorrow and keep you posted. Thanks for all the help. . .

I took it apart to look for any scorches, etc. and OMG the quality of soldering inside the unit is pathetic.

I could solder better than that drunk, missing many fingers and blindfolded.

I'll keep you all looped

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:33 pm

Yeah Ned, theres a reason why I said leave it plugged in to the motherboard. See, when its plugged in, the motherboard feeds power to the "Power Good" pin on the connector which allows the power supply to fire up and stay on.

At any rate, if those are the only active pins, then I suggest you stick it into another system to be sure. It may not be your power supply after all. You could also short two pins on the connector, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:03 pm

I wouldn't stick it into another system -- if the PSU is defective it may (!) deliver wrong voltages under load and toast some hardware. Better way is to try a known good PSU w/ your computer.

Deadmeat · Post by **Deadmeat** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:29 pm

There's another way to check power supplies. With the ATX disconnected, jumper the green wire to any of the black ones. This "tricks" the PSU into thinking it's getting a signal from the MB to power up. I'd also recommend having a couple of case fans plugged in to put some load on the PSU. If nothing powers up you've got a dead PSU. If not you can now check voltages. The important ones are:

Orange - 3.3V+
Red - 5.0V+
Yellow - 12.0V+

All should be +/- 10%

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:01 pm

I bought a 400W Antec

I'll toss it in late tonight and let you know.

Thanks for the idea about tricking the supply. That was the issue I couldn't fully understand last night.

Having everything just suddenly go dead was interesting . . . Can you imagine how you'd sh_t your pants if your were like on the ISS and that happened?

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:29 pm

completely normal now, with new supply

HOOOORAYYYYYYYYY!

(Double plus, I hate returning things)

Another question though:

Shutdowns are slow now, probably due to the sudden death

Any hard drive optimization advice?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:41 pm

defrag

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:03 pm

turn off system restore and Search Indexing.

and, back-ups are your friend.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:34 am

fliptw wrote:turn off system restore

Bad idea.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:21 am

Tetrad wrote:
fliptw wrote:turn off system restore
Bad idea.

Only if your a No0Ob

Know thy system and thy software.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:34 am

BUBBALOU wrote:Know thy system and thy software.

Well when I gain omniscience I'll consider doing that, but until then there's really no reason not to have a safety net. Too many variables there.

Warlock · Post by **Warlock** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:00 am

Tetrad wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote:Know thy system and thy software.
Well when I gain omniscience I'll consider doing that, but until then there's really no reason not to have a safety net. Too many variables there.

I agree. SR has saved my butt a few time

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:22 am

Tetrad wrote:
BUBBALOU wrote:Know thy system and thy software.
Well when I gain omniscience I'll consider doing that, but until then there's really no reason not to have a safety net. Too many variables there.

System restore is a crutch.

It gives a false sense of security, its only useful if you can boot windows in some fashion.

So, system restore is only useful at fixing semi-serious software issues. A hardware failure or particular nasty bit of malware renders System Restore useless.

The state of the software installed isn't as important as the user's data, and System Restore does nothing to help secure that data that doesn't rely on the functional state of System Restore, nor the state of encryption of the file system.

Thats right, if you have an encrypted file system, and SR doesn't work, your data may be OK, but you can 't use it.

System Restore is only convenince, not security.

If you make regular backups of your stuff, it doesn't matter what happens to your hardware, you still have access to your data, and the amount of time getting the hardware running again is puny compared to the pontetial of losing all your data.

Prevention is a lot cheaper than cure, and System Restore isn't very good cure.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:16 pm

I won't argue with that, but SR isn't useless, and there's really no reason to turn it off. There's a large number of driver-related system problems, and SR fixes those pretty handily. Likewise for a decent amount of malware and other things that change software and system configuration. Sure, if your drive or PSU fails that won't help you much, but that's a silly reason to say to not use it.

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:04 pm

Defrag seems to have helped. Everything is good now. Never used SR before, so Im not too familiar with it.

I have leaned my cheap power supply lesson. I found a weird solder joint that was loose, probably due to heating stress in bad soldering job.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:27 am

fliptw wrote:turn off system restore and Search Indexing.

and, back-ups are your friend.

Don't forget to turn off search indexing in your drive's properties (open "My Computer" and right-click on any hard drive listed and select properties. Uncheck "Allow Indexing Service to index this disk for fast file searching". If you have alot of data on that drive, this is going to take a while.

Be aware that if you format a hard drive in windows, it will enabled this by default. Its also enabled by default when windows is installed.

You could also just kill the service from starting, which is what I think flip was referring to. Click start, select run and type in "services.msc". Scroll down until you see "Indexing Service". Right-click on it and select properties. You'll see a pull-down menu. Click on that and select "Disabled". Then click on OK. It'll stop the service right there, and it'll never start again.

Honestly, I'd follow this guide and kill anything you don't need running. I went by the "Safe" method, and so far nothing's broken.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:30 am

BUBBALOU wrote:Know thy system and thy software.

The only reason I would turn ON system restore would be......
just before I installed something like..
Media Player 10 Beta.
If all goes well and no issues... with a beta that has no UNINSTALL, then OFF it goes again!

Computer Suddenly Shut Down

Computer Suddenly Shut Down

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