DescentBB

Post your bet whether Trump bows and kisses the Saudi kings toenails like Obama did.
I say no.

"The king is a really great guy. A lot of people are saying. Very exceptional. They said my electoral college landslide was historic, and they really mean that. The best. The best."

Complements don't count.

Actions. Right. Are you cool with the weapons sales?

You weren't around when we had this discussion when Obama met the king and bowed to him. If you don't want to answer or deflect I understand.

No, I guess I wasn't. I'm sure you guys gamed it all out in how that single act makes us submissive to their king. If we know anything, it's that Trump knows his base. So I guess I'd have to bet no, and if he were physically able, he'd perform the cobra clutch on him to prove he's so much better at greeting the king than that panty waist Obama. (and then he'd be all, Obama sold you 100 billion in arms, lets make it 200 billion)

I'm guessing that Trump shakes the King's hand after they make a pact to destroy Iran, on our dime no less.

ITT we receive even more confirmation that woody has absolutely no knowledge of the world at large.

My money is on the press doing their best to sabotage this trip, with questions about the domestic scandals, instead of relevant questions.

I would love to be wrong tho…

Like it would actually take effort to sabotage an ego trip like this.

He'll say whatever benefits him and his base. So I say yes.

Little protip for Woody: try doing business with a corporation in, say, Japan. Don't bow when you greet their bigwig execs. Watch your contract go up in smoke.

Spidey wrote:My money is on the press doing their best to sabotage this trip, with questions about the domestic scandals, instead of relevant questions.

I would love to be wrong tho…

thus far NO major outlet, print or TV(including Fox) is focused at all on the trip. Some mention of the optics, good and bad, to be aware of, weapon sales, etc. Still, the ongoing leaks from the White House around obstruction of justice is deemed far more important thus far.

Along with this presidential-sounding bully verbage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/p ... comey.html

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote:My money is on the press doing their best to sabotage this trip, with questions about the domestic scandals, instead of relevant questions.

I would love to be wrong tho…

thus far NO major outlet, print or TV(including Fox) is focused at all on the trip. Some mention of the optics, good and bad, to be aware of, weapon sales, etc. Still, the ongoing leaks from the White House around obstruction of justice is deemed far more important thus far.

Funny how even Sen. Feinstein says there is no basis in fact to the claims the Russians helped Trump in the election:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... n-n2322991

Even more damming when Sen Kucinich is concerned about the intelligence agencies are trying to interfere with the political process:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/201 ... d-war.html

So are you comfortable with this and how the news is focusing on gotcha game show politics for ratings? Are you at all concerned that the news is not covering the planned trillion dollar investment the Chinese are making to become the worlds new economic hub...usurping America in the process? Or do you think it is proper to keep people like TG dumb, blind and stupid by feeding them idiot news?

Looking at the footage of the arrival, what a contrast. Nope, Trump did not bow and it looked like the king slightly bowed to Trump (tho to be fair the king is old and his posture is not good). Other thing I see is the Trump women are not wearing any head covering. Didn't Obama's wife wear a dew rag of some sort?

Also President Trump got the full monty royal treatment. I especially liked the horse mounted honor guard. The horses reminded me of the Arab stallion I raised from a yearling. Always liked the form of the arab horses. All in all a complete opposite from when our past loser in chief went there. Nice to see a president bring pride to our country.

Top Gun wrote:Little protip for Woody: try doing business with a corporation in, say, Japan. Don't bow when you greet their bigwig execs. Watch your contract go up in smoke.

Different context:

When you bow to a king, it’s a sign of submission.

When you bow in Japan, it’s a show of respect.

We are such a weird people. Celebrating the luxurious treatment of our President by a monarchy while he inks a deal to sell arms to fight their arch enemy that just re-elected a relatively moderate president.

But whatever. I know the pride I felt when Obama would give some aspirational speech or other. If you feel in any way like that, I'm happy for you, even though I think you're completely batshit.

Trump is to proud of a man to bow. Now watch Buzzfeed blow this whole thing out of proportion.

woodchip wrote:Funny how even Sen. Feinstein says there is no basis in fact to the claims the Russians helped Trump in the election:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa ... n-n2322991

based on what she'd seen(isn't on the forefront of the investigation) at the time of that interview, which was quite a while back.

Even more damming when Sen Kucinich is concerned about the intelligence agencies are trying to interfere with the political process:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/201 ... d-war.html

he, too, has changed his tune since that February interview. Any reason why you cannot dig up more recent footage? Anyhow, there are THREE distinct investigations which SEEM to be going on here, now. First, the Russian election thing, which may or may not involve collusion. That's being looked into by Mueller and Congress. Justice and Congress seem to be interested in unreported or otherwise suspicious financial arrangements and deals. Finally, we now have to be underway and seem to be, with an investigation into the active, overt Obstruction of Justice. Yes, I'd agree and hope that ongoing investigation of leaks, and why they are seemingly gushing like geysers would be informative, especially if the info leaked was in any way doctored from the truth to achieve an end. In no way does that fact or investigation excuse or negate ANY of the others. Bear in mind, it's been claimed under oath that SEVERAL other nations have intelligence pertinent to these matters. I'm a patient man, old enough to suspect fire once I see enough smoke, but will wait for folks who have proven really good at investigating things do their jobs.

So are you comfortable with this and how the news is focusing on gotcha game show politics for ratings? Are you at all concerned that the news is not covering the planned trillion dollar investment the Chinese are making to become the worlds new economic hub...usurping America in the process? Or do you think it is proper to keep people like TG dumb, blind and stupid by feeding them idiot news?

cable news(to use a generic term, it bleeds to interweb news outlets every bit as much) is about 'gotcha', and money. You have to accept that much and then start sifting through the hard, real facts as they come forth. And, in matters like this they come forth slowly, if history is our guide. I don't know about YOUR news sources, but my financial news has been ALL OVER the Chinese and Japanese designs on making Asia the world locus of an automated economy(and, advising me to invest appropriately around that). Given that about half of my fellow citizens are stuck in a 'bring back coal and good manufacturing jobs' mindset and blithely ignoring the rapidly changing nature of economic output, industrial production and delivery methods, it is news that should be more heeded. Now, I don't watch any of the cable business networks but aren't they covering those stories? I would say the major news outlets are merely covering what a public with limited(severely so) insight and knowledge demands. A truly inquisitive citizen should be capable of keeping an eye on more than one story at once, without risk of some sort of overload.

Spidey wrote: Different context:

When you bow to a king, it’s a sign of submission.

When you bow in Japan, it’s a show of respect.

When you are a guest of someone from a different culture, you greet them according to that culture's norms. Most of us learned that basic level of respect in kindergarten. Unless you're Trump, who's the living breathing embodiment of an "ugly American."

woodchip wrote:Looking at the footage of the arrival, what a contrast. Nope, Trump did not bow and it looked like the king slightly bowed to Trump (tho to be fair the king is old and his posture is not good). Other thing I see is the Trump women are not wearing any head covering. Didn't Obama's wife wear a dew rag of some sort?

Also President Trump got the full monty royal treatment. I especially liked the horse mounted honor guard. The horses reminded me of the Arab stallion I raised from a yearling. Always liked the form of the arab horses. All in all a complete opposite from when our past loser in chief went there. Nice to see a president bring pride to our country.

The fact that you give any sort of ★■◆● about meaningless optics as opposed to a president who flat-out incriminated himself committing an impeachable offense says all we really need to know about your intelligence. Guess that enlistment oath was just so much hot air, right?

Edit: Oh man, and I wasn't even aware of this gem until I saw someone pointing it out. Integrity, thy name is Donald Trump.

Egomaniac macho sociopaths like Trump never follow protocol if it makes them look even a little bit subservient.

I think “protocol” is probably the term you are looking for…”decorum” would definitely dictate an American president not bow to a king.

woodchip wrote:Looking at the footage of the arrival, what a contrast. Nope, Trump did not bow and it looked like the king slightly bowed to Trump (tho to be fair the king is old and his posture is not good). Other thing I see is the Trump women are not wearing any head covering. Didn't Obama's wife wear a dew rag of some sort?

no they did not. See linkage provided above by another. Trump viewed that as an insult, via Twitter, at the time.

Also President Trump got the full monty royal treatment. I especially liked the horse mounted honor guard. The horses reminded me of the Arab stallion I raised from a yearling. Always liked the form of the arab horses. All in all a complete opposite from when our past loser in chief went there. Nice to see a president bring pride to our country.

nope, not ONE ★■◆●ing THING was different. Not one thing. The only difference, and it's pretty sick and twisted and TOTALLY un-American that it brings you 'pride' is that this first family is not black. Freaking racist that you are, apparently that suffices.

I'm pretty sure woodchip would've had the same opinion if it were Biden instead of Obama. Though, the terrorist fist bump scandal probably would've been a lot funnier.

Vander wrote:I'm pretty sure woodchip would've had the same opinion if it were Biden instead of Obama. Though, the terrorist fist bump scandal probably would've been a lot funnier.

Joe would disagree:



on that note, it's off to the woods for a week or so!! Take care, folks.

Spidey wrote:I think “protocol” is probably the term you are looking for…”decorum” would definitely dictate an American president not bow to a king.

Oops, you're correct Spidey. I fixed it.

Woodchip, I see Trump refrained from using that particular right wing rhetorical line that Obama always refused to utter. Not one peep about radical Islamic terrorism in his speech to the Saudis. Tsk, tsk.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-more-me ... ories.html

Tunnelcat wrote:

Spidey wrote:I think “protocol” is probably the term you are looking for…”decorum” would definitely dictate an American president not bow to a king.

Oops, you're correct Spidey. I fixed it.

Woodchip, I see Trump refrained from using that particular right wing rhetorical line that Obama always refused to utter. Not one peep about radical Islamic terrorism in his speech to the Saudis. Tsk, tsk.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-more-me ... ories.html

Maybe but he did tell the Saudis to get terrorism out of their mosque's. Pretty gutsy to tell them what to do with their religion.
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 706_1.html
Also pretty gutsy to attend a Sword Dance where he and his family were surrounded by fanatical sword carrying arabs.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... abia-video

Is it bravery, or is it just ignorance?

woodchip wrote:

Tunnelcat wrote:

Spidey wrote:I think “protocol” is probably the term you are looking for…”decorum” would definitely dictate an American president not bow to a king.

Oops, you're correct Spidey. I fixed it.

Woodchip, I see Trump refrained from using that particular right wing rhetorical line that Obama always refused to utter. Not one peep about radical Islamic terrorism in his speech to the Saudis. Tsk, tsk.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-more-me ... ories.html

Maybe but he did tell the Saudis to get terrorism out of their mosque's. Pretty gutsy to tell them what to do with their religion.
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 706_1.html
Also pretty gutsy to attend a Sword Dance where he and his family were surrounded by fanatical sword carrying arabs.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/vid ... abia-video

Yet, he couldn't bring himself to say: "Radical Islamic Terrorism", could he? He, and every right wing mouthpiece in the U.S., said it enough times during his campaign to burn it into our collective ears. I can still hear the whining. "Oh, if only Obama used that phrase and called a spade a spade, we'd be well on the road to solving the issue with Islamic Terrorists". So I guess that the audience matters when it comes to telling a bunch of representatives from nearly all of the Islamic countries in the region that they really need to buckle down and deal with the terrorists within their own religion, however, just not with that particular phrase and tone. In other words, he didn't have the balls to say that little bit of inflammatory rhetoric right to their collective faces. What a wussy. He also didn't have the cajones to call them out on their horrid human rights record either. We'll let them have a BIG pass under the new Trump administration.

Plus, he flipped the bird to Iran, a country who just elected a moderate leader all in an failed attempt to gain a better line of communication and possibly form a new business partnership with the U.S. What a missed opportunity in the fight on terrorism, because now, they will stay our enemy. What's that saying? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Funny you mention that sword dance. Nowhere in attendance were there any females, including Trump's own wife and daughter. That's sooooo nice for the president of a nation that has a free and open society that treasures equality, to be dancing like a smiling orange baboon waving his "he man sword" with a limp wrist no less, in a dance line along with that nation's entire lot of repressive leaders, a nation that also treats all it's women members as second class citizens. I also see that he's reneged on his word to his religious base about moving our embassy to Jerusalem, not that was a really splendid idea anyway. See a pattern here?

It seems that Melania and her daughter decided to follow protocol at the Vatican and wear black veils when meeting with the Pope, even though those protocols have been somewhat relaxed over the years. So Melania and daughter were the epitome of modesty for the Pope, but not for the Saudi King. What say you woody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40030668

The Saudi king is not the leader of the Muslim faith.

And that matters how? If you're the head of state, you should follow the protocols of whatever country you visit. Anything else is a direct insult, no matter how stupid you think those protocols are.

True, but an American president should never bow to a king…simply on principal alone.

The only protocol in bowing to a king is a show of submission, that’s what bowing to a king has always meant…since the beginning of time.

Spidey wrote:True, but an American president should never bow to a king…simply on principal alone.

The only protocol in bowing to a king is a show of submission, that’s what bowing to a king has always meant…since the beginning of time.

*yawn*

It's a matter of simple politeness, and has even less meaning attached to it today given the figurehead status of the vast majority of extant monarchies.

Trump sure bowed to Saudi Arabia with that weapons deal.

Top Gun wrote:

Spidey wrote:True, but an American president should never bow to a king…simply on principal alone.

The only protocol in bowing to a king is a show of submission, that’s what bowing to a king has always meant…since the beginning of time.

*yawn*

It's a matter of simple politeness, and has even less meaning attached to it today given the figurehead status of the vast majority of extant monarchies.

And politeness is what's missing from all this discussion about who's the manlier macho leader, in other words, who's the biggest shithead on turd mountain. Here's a perfect example. Gianforte of Montana body-slamming a reporter for asking a question about health care. Voters who were polled after the incident actually thought that is was OK to physically assault a reporter. They claimed it made Gianforte look macho. Rush Limbaugh thought it made him look manly and studly. Rick Wilson, a conservative columnist, made this observation, that we are seeing the: "cultural collapse of the GOP into the Trump troll party. Are you so past the rule of law, and lack so much confidence in your ideas that this is where you take political satisfaction?"

https://qz.com/992887/when-is-it-okay-t ... yptr=yahoo

Top Gun wrote:

Spidey wrote:True, but an American president should never bow to a king…simply on principal alone.

The only protocol in bowing to a king is a show of submission, that’s what bowing to a king has always meant…since the beginning of time.

*yawn*

It's a matter of simple politeness, and has even less meaning attached to it today given the figurehead status of the vast majority of extant monarchies.

Well the king of Saudi Arabia is no figurehead, and there are plenty of ways to be polite.

Considering that Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam, Trump's decision to not follow protocol, just for the Saudis, seems like a pretty deliberate slight for one particular religion. Don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't want to have to wear a headscarf or be subservient just to follow the tenets of a religion I don't agree with. The same goes for the Catholics, the Vatican and their now seldom used black veil dress requirement. But since Trump is our head of state, he should at least have the appearance of showing respect, even if he doesn't agree with it.